That; Which; Who

by compound complex 17 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  compound complex

  Using that, which and who to introduce clauses and when to use commas:

  The little boy who lives next door is a noisy, hell-raising brat.

  "Who lives next store" describes one little boy in particular, not the entire neighborhood of nice and respectful children; therefore, that clause is not set off by commas. Those four highlighted words comprise a restrictive clause.

  My brother, who lives in Tibet, is not a spiritual man.

  "Who lives in Tibet" is not essential to the sentence. Bro could live in Brooklyn Heights and still not be a spiritual man.

  Who is used when people are the subject.

  Mother's portrait, which had been hanging over the fireplace mantle, is in need of restoration because of faulty fluing.
  
  
  "which had been hanging over the fireplace mantle" is helpful but nonessential information. Use which to introduce a non-restrictive clause and set it off with commas.

  The book that was stolen from the library was a first edition.
  
  
  "that was stolen from the library" is a restrictive clause, introduced by that, and is not set off by commas. It is one book amongst thousands that was pilfered.
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  Terry

  Thanks CoCo!

  In editing (and editing and editing) my book, I discovered how many "that" corpses littered my landscape!

  What is amazing about the proliferation of "that" is as follows. You can remove them from most sentences and not change the meaning at all!

  How does this pestiferous polyp of prose persuade us to proliferate thusly?

  I dunno.

  Keep up the righteous spotlight on malignant writing, CoCo.
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  compound complex

  As always, Terry, many thanks for your wise words and humble questioning over that which truly matters.

  I say "I dunno" a lot, too! You alliterate most deliciously . . .

  Best.

  CC
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  dropoffyourkeylee

  I am glad the new NWT has corrected the numerous who/that grammatical errors like at John 5:30 "the will of him that sent me".
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  Oubliette

  "THAT is something up with WHICH I will not put!"

  WHO said that?
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  adamah

  CoCo, do you think you might be slightly overestimating the eggregious nature of such grammatical offenses, starting this thread in the "scandals and cover-ups" category?

  Adam
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  Band on the Run

  Thank you for reminding us of the differences in usage. I regret never learning these rules in school. My school was a targeted antipoverty zone. I received As for naming two or three of the characters in a novel. I read a lot on my own to make up for the lack of teaching.

  Can you recommend a workbook for adults where one can practice these distinctions and then go on to other rules? I tried online but the examples were too easy. When I graduated law school, I tried to work on one of the elements in Strunk and White. I read it frequently so I could know that there was a problem and then I just chose topics at random.

  I envy people who learn these rules at home and early in their education. It is always a struggle for me. I did find a decent software program but it was quite expensive. Also, I used to read memos by other lawyers to see which ones would be good examples. I found a definite correlation between a private school education and English usage. It is a valuable skill. When I meet college students, I recommend they take intensive writing classes. Most of the time they tell me they are exceptional writers. Time will tell.

  Perhaps the trend towards literary analysis disrupted the teaching of usage. I loved the story of Winston Churchill not being allowed to take foreign languages at his private school so he excelled at English.
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  Hortensia

  A style guide, like the AP style guide, is very helpful when you are in doubt about how to use a word. That and which always confused me.
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  compound complex

  Thanks for your much appreciated posts!

  Distinguished British authors, such as Rosamunde Pilcher and P.D. James, and highbrow magazines on the order of THE NEW YORKER, serve as touchstones for the work I do. I suspect, however, that the American editions of British literature may differ somewhat in the manner of punctuation.

  Gratefully,

  CoCo
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  compound complex

  Oubliette: Winston Churchill

  Adamah: I was happy just to find a spot! Good point, nevertheless!

  Dropoff: Thanks for noting that that should be who, or I infer as much . . .

  Band: Yes, early training, but desire and aptitude are, in my estimation, key. I was always a little grammar nitpicker. Get paid for it now.

  Hortensia: Thanks for ref. I hope the above examples, while not comprehensive, clarify the distinction.