I have an oppertuinity to try TTATT on an elders wife who is a pioneer who showed up today. She is willing to meet me one on one to discuss how pedofiles are protected, the blood issue, the flip flpos, how they teach theocratical warfare and hate. I agreed to only use watchtower and awake publications. Court records are also allowed. Which publications should I reference so she can verify on her own. Dates and page numbers would be very helpful. Is this a good idea or should I chuck it?
HELP I have until next Wednesday
by KariOtt 32 Replies latest jw friends
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jgnat
Boy, that was a productive thirty seconds. Look up the issues on jwfacts.org. I've forgotten how far back the WT CD's go but if you quote something no older than 1985 you should be fine.
I'd make up a small folder for each of those issues but have them out of sight.
Ask her what she thinks is the most critical issue (speaking to her natural personality) and deal only with ONE ISSUE.
You can have the references hand-written (no evidence of computer print-out) for her to look up.
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The Searcher
I think you are storing up trouble for yourself. Whatever you say, she is going to reveal that you are a possible danger to the "unity of thought" in the cong.
Why not restrict the chat to a couple of 'problems' you have with the explanation of 'new scrolls', (Rev. 20:1-12) as well as the contradiction which Deuteronomy 29:10-15 shows, as regards the teaching that aliens were not in the Covenant.
Stick strictly to the Bible - she cannot question what it is saying against WTBTS teachings!
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KariOtt
She's been texting me all afternoon trying to set up a meeting. I finally gave in under my conditions. Took her 34 texts over a 2 hour period before I gave in. Could be real intrusting. I want to be very well prepared.Any help will be greatly appreciated.
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allelsefails
What about Dictionaries and Encyclopedias? If you can I recommend rolling out 607/587 first. No = 607 = No 1914 and that changes everything.
I agree with JWfacts as a great resource and then you can print the references from the source material so there is no JWFacts on anything you print. Don't be surprised if she talks to her husband about hte visit he might insist he come along or not let her come at all. I know how elders are....
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adamah
Kari, I wouldn't 'shot-gun': it's better to focus on ONE issue (like blood transfusion) and limit it to THAT ONE TOPIC, ALONE, and become an expert on it. Learn it in-depth.
I wrote an article on how a misreading of Noah's Flood account allows the WTBTS to abuse Genesis 9:5-6:
Marvin Shilmer has written extensively on the blood issue, as JWfacts.com has, as well. Once you feel comfortable with it, then MAYBE move onto another topic.
That said, trying to argue TTATT with an elder's wife is an exercise in futility, as it's not about setting rank-and-file members setting their beliefs based on LOGIC and REASON, but setting them based on COMPLIANCE: you or this elder's wife don't set the policies and determine what beliefs you can accept, but what 8 men in Brooklyn tell you to believe.
Searcher said-
Stick strictly to the Bible - she cannot question what it is saying against WTBTS teachings!
The good thing is the New WT app apparently has multiple translations: good to use Genesis 9:5-6 as the basis for showing them how a failed interpretation leads to abuse.
That said, the fly in the ointment is the elder's wife CAN use their flawed interpretation of the Bible to support their flawed conclusion: he who controls the interpretation controls the policies that stem from it.
Adam
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Oubliette
You only need the recent July 15th, 2013 Watchtower.
Ask her if the Governing Body is CORRECT NOW in teaching that they, and only they, are in fact the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" what were they before?
And if the WT leadership has been wrong about their own prophetic identity for the last 93+ years, how can we trust that they are right about anything? This is, after all, THE foundational scripture upon which all their claims of authority rest.
If the GB are NOT the FDS, then we are under no obligation to listen to them about anything, none ... zero, zilch, nada, nothing, zippo!
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gingerbread
In my experience as a JW (over 40 years ), elders wives are the most power hungry, deceptive and potentially dangerous people in the congregation.
Don't be a fool. You are about to walk into a spider's web.
More people are disfellowshipped as a result of 'confiding' to an elder's wife or pioneer sister than you might imagine!
ginger
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NeverKnew
Kari...
I've been using side doors leveraging my experience in different theologies.
Have you ever been involved in the Catholic faith? That conversation can route you to Raymundus Martini.
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zound
It kind of sounds like a trap - so be careful if you have family to lose or whatever.
Having said that - I'd focus on just one issue, perhaps child abuse or blood.