But it does.
Well it doesn't help anybody understand what they are talking about - that would be a genuine miracle. But it may explain why they are convinced they hear voices.
Conjuring Uo Our Own Gods
by startingover 38 Replies latest jw friends
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Twitch
Reminds me a bit of my interest in shamanism and guided meditation not long after I left the dub world. The idea of meditating on the "spirit world" and searching out my power animal was very much like creating a world and things in it out of my own imagination. I was told that in time I would find such spirits would talk to me and guide me. That it was a personal journey and not objective or verifiable was the main reason I lost interest; creating a fantasy complete with spirits I make up wasn't very satisfying, though some seem to put great faith in it. Ultimately, I reasoned it was me anyways and I didn't need the fantasy to trust in or believe in myself
I can see how our ancestors believed in it and how such things "evolved" into pantheism and eventually monotheism, something everyone could identify with without much meditative effort.
Modern day charismatics who promote direct revelation aren't much different than yer average shaman of old IMO
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rip van winkle
Yes Cofty, it MAY explain. It also MAY NOT explain. Why name people? Why USE them as an example.?
It is very presumptuous!!
Would YOU like me to start a thread and use YOU as an example to introduce an article, without having your participation to begin with?
Please don't say it would be ok with you. I believe I Understand from your many posts that you would NOT.
Oh, am I PRESUMING to know your thoughts on the matter? I'm sure you don't mind .. now, do you??
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cofty
I'm sure certain posters will be delighted when they read the article. It probably proves they are neither mad nor bad. They are part of a spiritual tradition .
Jack, a young man I interviewed, decided to make a tulpa when he was in college. He set aside an hour and a half each day for this. He’d spend the first 40 minutes or so relaxing and clearing his mind. Then he visualized a fox (he liked foxes). After four weeks, he started to feel the fox’s presence, and to have feelings he thought were the fox’s.
Finally, after a chemistry exam, he felt that she spoke to him. “I heard, clear as day, ‘Well, how did you do?’ ” he recalled. For a while he was intensely involved with her, and said it felt more wonderful than falling in love with a girl.
Then he stopped spending all that time meditating — and the fox went away. It turned out she was fragile. He says she comes back, sometimes unexpectedly, when he practices. She calms him down.
The mere fact that people like Jack find it intuitively possible to have invisible companions who talk back to them supports the claim that the idea of an invisible agent is basic to our psyche. But Jack’s story also makes it clear that experiencing an invisible companion as truly present — especially as an adult — takes work: constant concentration, a state that resembles prayer.
Maybe I will try to invent my own god and see how long it takes before it speaks to me. What should I call her?
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rip van winkle
Cofty, sure, that may be so. Just like the "Voice hearing" information Dave Perez introduced on a thread that one or more of the named were a part of.
The problem is not the article that was introduced.
The issue is that the op ASSUMED to use the article as INSIGHT to explain something regarding 3 people who were not a part of his thread.
When introducing this article he could have said ( WITHOUT naming anyone):
..there are some posters that are misunderstood.. it could be possible....this MAY be a good bridge to help us understand better..
That's exactly what Dave Perez did.
I think at the time , Cofty, you weren't so agreeable to the possibility nor very kind or understanding.
~~~And by ignoring my previous question, you have reinforced my belief that I understand your thinking on the matter, if I started a topic and named you as an example it would be fine with you. Sure it would.
I asked Cofty:
Would YOU like me to start a thread and use YOU as an example to introduce an article, without having your participation to begin with?
Please don't say it would be ok with you. I believe I Understand from your many posts that you would NOT.
Oh, am I PRESUMING to know your thoughts on the matter? I'm sure you don't mind .. now, do you??
~~ I believe Cofty agrees with my statement.
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startingover
Rip, you are right. Poor choice on my part and I would change it if I could. I hope my poor choiuce does not detract from what I consider to be excellent information contained in the article. My apologies.
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Band on the Run
The article is interesting. I see no fault with naming the posters b/c they were quite candid that they heard voices that they attributed to Christ. It was no secret. They saw no need for shame. Indeed, they viewed those of us who do not literally hear Jesus as lesser creatures. I noted that the tuplas form with practice. When I practiced meditation every day for forty-five minutes during my illness, I could perceive brain wave changes. I conjured no creatures or angels- not even Jesus. I did feel that I was in an altered state that was different from my norm. The meditation was part of a worship device so I read Bible verses and/or Christian literature. I kept a journal b/c I was interested in the experience.
After years of being back to normal, I took the journal down and read the content. It was first rate stuff. I do feel that I thought about things in a not so analytic manner. Of course, school and practice formed a certain way of thinking. The meditation allowed me to experiment with a different form.
I wish I knew more about the practice. Do you need to hone the skill? Why does it disappear so quickly? Sacred mushrooms-what is it called in the Gita? LSD never appealed to me. Reality is nice for me. Perhaps home was too chaotic and the fear of Armageddon too great. What disturbs me to no end is one person imposing their beliefs on another. This recently happened and church/state issues were involved. Whenever a Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist, etc. person would feel compromised, I feel compromised. The Jesus I construct beckons with love, not dogma.
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rip van winkle
Starting Over, it IS a good article with good info. I appreciated the article very much.
Apologies are not necessary. Not to me but I thank you for 'getting' why I did not agree with using anyones name.
Maybe you can pm a mod and request the removal of names, replaced with: __fill-in- the-blank__
They can also remove all off topic posts while leaving your thread intact.
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jgnat
OK, I tried to fix the thread, removing reference to certain posters.
Here's a talk on Ted where a woman diagnosed Schizophrenic came to term with her voices. Amazing, really.
http://www.ted.com/talks/eleanor_longden_the_voices_in_my_head.html
Schizophrenics, sadly, have no choice whether they hear the voices or not. And for whatever reason, the voices are rarely benevolent.
I admit when I have been over-tired or in a buzzed state of mind, that I've picked up spare conversations in my own head that definitely felt otherly.
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startingover
Thanks Jngnat.