by wizzstick 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
DATA-DOG has it right. It is about 'brand recognition'. Jehovah replaced Jesus during the brutal Rutherford era. Anything that mainstream Christianity believed, Rutherford took an opposite stance. In JW land, Jesus is only a figurehead much like the Queen of England. Sad but true.
In JW land, to be "in the truth" and be a good JW, teachings and doctrines are not the important thing. It's our obedience to those teachings and doctrines that is important.
eyeuse2badub
DATA-DOG has it right. It is about 'brand recognition'. Jehovah replaced Jesus during the brutal Rutherford era. Anything that mainstream Christianity believed, Rutherford took an opposite stance. In JW land, Jesus is only a figurehead much like the Queen of England. Sad but true.
In JW land, to be "in the truth" and be a good JW, teachings and doctrines are not the important thing. It's our obedience to those teachings and doctrines that is important.
eyeuse2badub
How do the GB explain these verses away??
Daniel 7:9-14
9 “I kept on beholding until there were thrones placed and the Ancient of Days sat down. His clothing was white just like snow, and the hair of his head was like clean wool. His throne was flames of fire; its wheels were a burning fire. 10 There was a stream of fire flowing and going out from before him. There were a thousand thousands that kept ministering to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand that kept standing right before him. The Court took its seat, and there were books that were opened. 11 “I kept on beholding at that time because of the sound of the grandiose words that the horn was speaking; I kept on beholding until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given to the burning fire. 12 But as for the rest of the beasts, their rulerships were taken away, and there was a lengthening in life given to them for a time and a season. 13 “I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin.
So, we have the 1) Ancient of Days and 2) The Son of man. The Son of man, who JWs says is Jesus, gains access to the Ancient of Days, which they say is JEHOVAH. JEHOVAH give Jesus the Kingship forever. So either JEHOVAH and Jesus are one in some spiritual and mysterious way, or these verses contradict Revelation where the Kingdom is handed back to the Father. Jesus' rulership cannot be everlasting if he gives it back, and JEHOVAH cannot become King if Jesus' is king for eternity... If only Rutherford could speak from beyond the grave, then we could be sure.
DD
Further down in para 3 it states.....
The subsequent famines, earthquakes, and pestilences as well as the fulfillment of other Bible prophecies proved conclusively that Jesus Christ had begun to rule in heaven as King of God’s Kingdom in 1914. * By enthroning his Son as the Messianic King, Jehovah had, indeed, become King in a new sense!
So to highlight the fact it is confusing and convoluted is good for the R&F. But I have said this before and I will say it again, someone on the GB is teaching the JWs TTATT. This is a prime example of something so stupid and obvious it has to be deliberate.
I am not buying it that they are all that stupid, they are a multi-billion dollar organisation, that cleverly manipulates their R&F. They have another Ray Franz in their midst. I am sure of it.
Kate xx
Hi,
Can't wait to read this one with the congregation & watch their brains go haywire, yet sit there like they understand it. This past weekend was about the Pioneers (WT). When the questions were asked, you could hear a pin drop, well it will be the same thing when we get to this WT. Many of them don't even want to think. That is why they are witnesses, they tell you how to live & think. I became a witness because, why not ? They are no worse than any other type of worship. The Society puts their own spin on the scriptures yet, other types of worship make up stuff that isn't even in the bible. Is man supposed to interpret the bible or should it be read to change us ? Man ends up all the time shooting themselves in the foot. We are too smart for our own good, read more into the scriptures than is actually there. God is the Creator, he don't need no humans to validate him of whether he is king or not. God knows who he is, only we humans don't know who he is...some say he is his own son/Jesus, some say he is God & not his own son, some say, he rolled himself up in human form to come to earth to walk among us & then killed & then go back home to heaven. So much to believe. If it's not in black & white from the bible then it isn't true. We all put too much faith in man, then when man misleads us, we get angry. Nobody can come to know God through Man, man distorts, man is imperfect & has their own agenda. So as far as I'm concerned they can change all day long. It won't matter because they are just man. None of us want to think, we want men to think for us. I have been to many places of worship, ain't no place have the entire truth, so folks get over it...The real truth is in the bible. God will tell you if he is king or not...it's right there in black & white.
Legacy
Hmmm. Or they just want the sheeple confused so that they need the GB to understand the " deeper things." Create a vacuum, and then attempt to fill that vacuum while never really doing so. That ensures job security.
This guy must have been on the GB at some point:
" On the path from awareness to a sale, the marketer has to create a vacuum.
The goal of that short film or that sales letter or that invitation to a seminar shouldn't be to answer every question and completely describe what's on offer. No, effective marketing amplifies awareness of a problem or an opportunity, a problem the product or service solves or an opportunity it creates.
I know it's tempting to sell with bullet points and an overwhelming amount of data. It gets you off the hook and requires little in the way of creativity or guts. Storytelling requires both."
Gotta go! I have some Miracle Wheat to sell to some kid's in Africa.
DD
Again, this idea of YHWH 'becoming king' anew is a biblical one.
Some older commentaries on Rev. 11:17:
Pulpit
Because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned; because thou hast taken thy great power, and didst reign (Revised Version). God never ceased to reign, though for a time he abrogated his power. This power he has now reassumed, and the elders thank him for it, for it is the assurance of the end of the suffering of the Church of God.
Gill's Exposition
because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned; power always belonged to him, as God; he always was the mighty God, and, as such, help for his people was laid upon him, he being mighty to save, and able to bear the government of them, laid on his shoulders; and, as Mediator, all power in heaven, and in earth, was given to him at his resurrection; and he had a name given him above every name, when exalted at the right hand of God, and was made, or declared, Lord and Christ; and from that time he has, in some measure, exerted his power and reigned: he endued his apostles with power from on high; and he went forth in the ministry of the Gospel conquering, and to conquer; and has ever since reigned in the hearts of his people; but now he will manifest and display his "great" power; he will show it more openly, and use it more extensively; his kingdom shall be from sea to sea, and from the river to the ends of the earth; he shall be King over all the earth; his power has been seen in ages past, but now the "greatness" of his power will be made manifest; he has always had a kingdom on earth, but now the, "greatness" of the kingdom, under the whole heaven, will be his.
Barnes
Because thou hast taken to thee thy great power - To wit, by setting up thy kingdom over all the earth. Before that it seemed as if he had relaxed that power, or had given the power to others. Satan had reigned on the earth. Disorder, anarchy, sin, rebellion, had prevailed. It seemed as if God had let the reins of government fall from his hand. Now he came forth as if to resume the dominion over the world, and to take the scepter into his own hand, and to exert his great power in keeping the nations in subjection. The setting up of his kingdom all over the world, and causing his laws everywhere to be obeyed, will be among the highest demonstrations of divine power. Nothing can accomplish this but the power of God; when that power is exerted nothing can prevent its accomplishment.
And hast reigned - Prof. Stuart, “and shown thyself as king” - that is, “hast become king, or acted as a king.” The idea is, that he had now vindicated his regal power (Robinson, Lexicon) - that is, he had now set up his kingdom on the earth, and had truly begun to reign. One of the characteristics of the millennium - and indeed the main characteristic will be that God will be everywhere obeyed; for when that occurs all will be consummated that properly enters into the idea of the millennial kingdom.
In like manner the religious clergy of Christendom appeared to prosper in divine favor up till A.D. 1914. That year the times appointed for worldly nations to dominate the earth ended. Then Jehovah God took over his power to rule the earth as King and installed his Son in the throne. — 1951 The Watchtower, 4/1 p. 207 par. 8
Jehovah has installed the Messianic King, Jesus Christ, on his glorious throne to be coruler with Him! — 1990 The Watchtower, 1/15 p. 20 par. 15
He abrogated his power.. How, When?! When he came to Earth in human form? Did he regain it when Jesus was raised up? Jesus did say that all authority had been given to him.
DD
When? It all depends on one's eschatological or Millennial views.
