2 SURVEY QUESTIONS (page 4)

tec

Oh come on! My eyebrow arched for just a moment there... ; )

Peace,

tammy

ILoveTTATT

1. I honestly cannot imagine a truthful answer to your first question, because I have never been in the "spiritual vacuum" necessary to answer your question. EVERYTHING will be somehow biased...

I would guess that if there was no Holy Book at all, then I would not know a thing about God. Everything I know about God or think I know about Him (even if God is a "he" or a "she"), is from the Bible. So I assume that God is a He, that He is sometimes an extremely angry God, sometimes a really nice God, that He is said to be "love" and extremely wise, etc... So we have, as a culture (and I would say this for at least 35% of humanity), some sort of notion of "God"... But if I was raised in a "spiritual vacuum", then I would probably go on with my life and not think that there is a person in the sky who is watching over me... I would just, not think of "God" at all!!

2. If there WAS a Holy Book, my expectations of it would depend on its claims. If it claimed that the book was written or inspired by this "God" who knows all the answers and is infallible, well then I would expect the book itself to be infallible. One iota of a mistake, and the whole thing is rubbish.

If the book just said, this is NOT a book from "God," just a compilation of stories... I would perhaps read it, take it with a grain of salt, and move on...

jwleaks

"Si Dieu n'existait pas, il faudrait l'inventer." - Voltaire

( If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.)

"Une fois inventé, il serait nécessaire d'écrire un livre sujet de Dieu." - anon

(Once invented, it would be necessary to write a book about God.)

"Une fois que le livre est écrit, il serait nécessaire de dire qu'il est un texte sacré de Dieu." - anon

(Once the book is written, it would be necessary to say it is sacred text from God.)

Chariklo

Before there was a Holy Book, and indeed before there was any book at all, mankind still had an awareness of a spiritual dimension. There is worldwide evidence in stones and ancient megalithic construction of their spiritual leanings.

As to whether there would be an awareness of God as in the Watchtower's Jehovah, I think, gratefully, that the answer's a resounding no!

LucidChimp

I know the bible is full of lies and error (though I'm glad we agree).

You are right, I don't throw away a book simply because it does not claim to be inspired, I throw away a book if it contains things I know to be lies... I find sifting through lies for truth unrewarding after spending most of my life involved in the task on some level.

I asked how someone could know the lies from the "truth", or "Truth" if you prefer, without christ telling them. (your reply seemed to be "ask him")

Simply reading the bible and believing only those parts which are loving would be nice, but hardly seems like much of a test of validity or truth. (Assuming testing them against love and christ are as you say - the same)

I do find it curious that you say to test the inspired scriptures against uninspired accounts of things he is supposed to have said... which I guess you also test against "the spirit", or love? (If so it comes full circle?)

Shalom back at ya.

LucidChimp

OTWO: You did a funny. Had me there for a second.

OnTheWayOut

LucidChimp, great thoughts. I cannot take "the book" and say that some of it is inspired and some of it isn't. If "God" didn't protect His Word and allowed junk to be added to it, then we would have to throw out the entire thing.

If Christ is telling some of you out there what parts to keep, then publish that information and tell us what Christ has to say about the rest. Tell us what He says to abolish from "The Word."

Otherwise, we could start ignoring the parts that make women secondary citizens, the parts that say God approved rape, the parts that agreed with slavery, and we could pretend all is good with God. We could misuse the Bible to form a religion that controls people. Oh wait.... that may have already happened. Nevermind.

tec

You are right, I don't throw away a book simply because it does not claim to be inspired, I throw away a book if it contains things I know to be lies... I find sifting through lies for truth unrewarding after spending most of my life involved in the task on some level.

(the bible is not one book)

Would you throw out the subject OF a book, if you found that there were errors in that book? For instance, if you found that there were errors in a science book from a hundred years ago (and you definitely WILL find errors)... would you throw out science? What if that book pointed you to the one who DOES know the truth about the subject, even though the authors in that book admittedly only knew in part? Do you say... screw it. If they didn't know, then no one knows. Or do you perhaps go to that One who is said TO know, and then ask Him?

I asked how someone could know the lies from the "truth", or "Truth" if you prefer, without christ telling them. (your reply seemed to be "ask him")

True.

I cannot KNOW without knowing from Christ. I can reason, I can think, I can ponder, I can believe... but I KNOW when He confirms something or tells me something. Be that in words or in spirit.

Simply reading the bible and believing only those parts which are loving would be nice, but hardly seems like much of a test of validity or truth. (Assuming testing them against love and christ are as you say - the same)

Not necessarily the same thing, no. People have different ideas about what love IS. Best to combine the two, if you cannot hear Christ, Himself, because Christ is also the Truth about love. (God)

However, if something is not against love, and you do not know that it is not true, then why have a problem with it?

I do find it curious that you say to test the inspired scriptures against uninspired accounts of things he is supposed to have said... which I guess you also test against "the spirit", or love? (If so it comes full circle?)

If you are examining the bible... and the bible says that Christ is the truth... then his words and teachings should be the test for you, against all else that man has written.

But if you are able and willing to go to Him in spirit, and ask Him to open your eyes and ears and heart... then He can show you, Himself, what is true.

Peace,

tammy

tec

If "God" didn't protect His Word and allowed junk to be added to it, then we would have to throw out the entire thing.

Yet again... Christ is the Word of God. Not the bible.

If Christ is telling some of you out there what parts to keep,

He is not. He is simply speaking truth (though others wrote down the things that He said)... and we are following Him.

We do not need to sort through the bible. We need ONLY to listen to HIM. He will teach and guide us into all truth.

then publish that information and tell us what Christ has to say about the rest.

This would be the opposite of listening to Him. HE does not say... rewrite the bible; or any such thing. He (and God) says to us, and to you, to come to HIm, to listen to HIm.

You can do the same. But you refuse to simply look at Christ... listening instead to those you know are false, who told you something else.

Tell us what He says to abolish from "The Word."

Once again... the WORD... is Christ.

And witnesses to Him continue to say... look at Christ. Christ is the Truth, the Word, the Image of God. But you don't listen Him, or their testimony about Him. Even when it is backed up by what IS written.

Otherwise, we could start ignoring the parts that make women secondary citizens, the parts that say God approved rape, the parts that agreed with slavery, and we could pretend all is good with God.

You could do those things now, (except for the 'pretend' part) simply by listening to Christ. But you do not.

We could misuse the Bible to form a religion that controls people. Oh wait.... that may have already happened. Nevermind.

People misuse whatever they can get their hands upon to control their fellow man... and you think that someone should re-write the bible, and no one would misuse that?

Man can listen to what man says about God... or man can listen to what Christ - the image OF God, and the Word OF God, and the Truth OF God - reveals about God.

Peace,

tammy

jgnat

QUESTION #1:If there were no Holy Book in existence--what would you or anybody else KNOW about God and how would you know it?

I haven't participated on this thread, so this is my tongue-in-cheek reply with no reference to what has gone before.

Oral tradition.

QUESTION #2: If whatever Holy Book(s) turned out to be unreliable for any reason (or at least hit-and-miss) would that be any different from being totally wrong?

Like fairy tales are wrong? I had an elder tell me a story of seeing Thunderbird (or at least evidence that Thunderbird had been there) a long way off halfway up the mountain. It was his story, his memory. Can I declare him false?

When we are in story telling mode, there's a suspension of belief and for a short time we are transported in to another, shared reality.

2 SURVEY QUESTIONS

Share this