Wow
A child that DIDN'T want to die ... a blood experience you won't read in Awake! or on JW.ORG
by wannabefree 78 Replies latest watchtower medical
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adamah
The story rings like BS to me. Here's a case from WI which predates the 1980's, where the Court intervened:
From:
http://jwdivorces.bravehost.com/bloodb.html
IN THE MATTER OF TIFFANY LOTT was a 1975 Wisconsin court decision. In November 1975, Mr. and Mrs. Booker T. Lott, of Milwaukee, Wisconsin took their 13-month old daughter, Tiffany, to the emergency room with what they thought was a cold or the flu. Mrs. Lott, 22, told the doctors that Tiffany had not been eating, and was vomiting. Tests revealed that the infant's hemoglobin registered 2.2 milligrams per 100 cubic centimeters of blood. A blood transfusion was urgently needed. The Lotts refused to consent, citing their WatchTower beliefs as Jehovah's Witnesses. The hospital petitioned the local court for guardianship and authorization to administer the needed life-saving transfusion. The judge held an emergency hearing at the hospital, where the Lotts did everything they could to disuade the judge. Steven Kirkland, the Presiding Overseer of the Lotts JW congregation, quoted passages from the Bible which supposedly prohibited blood transfusions. The judge granted the petition. The transfusions were administered, and Tiffany Lott went home five days later.
Not that the case set any legal precedent, but it's well-known that the idea of parents not being allowed to make their kids martyrs dates back to the 1940's in the U.S.
It seems that some haven't yet given up the trait of perpetuating BS without supportive evidence, but only relying on second-hand "someone I know said....." , AKA anecdotal accounts, which is some of the weakest evidence in existence since people are known to make up stuff.
In general, remember that the claims you should MOST be doubtful of is that you WANT to be true; otherwsise, you're at the mercy of those who tell you whatever you want to be true (which is exactly what many here feel victim to, when you wanted to believe you could live forever on a paradise Earth, see your resurrected loved ones again, etc).
Adam
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Giordano
It makes sense if the child was asking his parents to approve the use of blood but was reluctant to go against them by speaking out to the doctors.
Then again some parents are more concerned with their reputation within the JW world and are willing to sacrifice their child to keep their good standing.
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wannabefree
I can understand the skepticism, however, I have no doubt in this person's account. If you knew her and actually heard her tell the story as I did, I think you would believe her. Taken as an unknown random account without the context of the entire conversation and the relationship I have with this person makes it harder to accept. She isn't anti-JW or an activist against the religion, she just could never accept the blood teaching after this experience and asked me more about the reasoning behind it.
Since the experience is 33 years in the past take it for what it is.
I personally assume, which is all one can do without all of the facts of 1980, that perhaps the young man was coached by parents and elders to take a stand for Jehovah and said one thing in front of parents and doctors while sharing his true fear and feelings to this caring woman.
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dazed but not confused
True story or not, I’m sure this same or similar scenario has played out many times before.
I was born with complications, meconium in my lungs, I nearly died. There was a while where I didn’t receive enough oxygen. Best case, the doctors thought I might be a vegetable. My mom, a devout JW since 74’ signed documents refusing me blood. This was 83’. Luckily my dad a nonJW told the nurses/docs to lose the documents – throw them out, tear them up, whatever. My mom essentially signed my death certificate.
As pointed out perhaps the kid was “coached” to say one thing while he felt another. At any rate, I’m sure this has happened many times in the past and sadly probably still happens from time to time. The blood issue is the main reason why I found myself down the rabbit hole.
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Marvin Shilmer
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I can only read the account above, and it’s a sad one for sure.
In my years I’ve seen plenty of sick children coaxed and coached by parents and congregation elders into being little “mature minors” in order to convince medical staff not to administer blood product forbidden by Watchtower teaching. It’s such a tragedy, not to mention a travesty.
The whole scenario makes Watchtower’s top leadership nothing short of bloodguilty mobsters in my book.
Marvin Shilmer
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Found Sheep
I believe the account 1980 was a different time. Today the law would more than likely take over.
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Wasanelder Once
Totally anecdotal. Probably a grain of truth but certainly doesn't ring true. Two angels at the door with the sister blah blah.
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TD
With leukemia, the decision to transfuse or not is nowhere near as black and white as with many other transfusion scenarios because transfusion does absolutely nothing to cure (Or even slow) the disease itself.
If physicians know in advance that transfusion is not an option, they simply avoid treatments which will likely lead to it becoming a medical necessity.
Having said that though, the story does sound a little odd as told.
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adamah
Marvin said- In my years I’ve seen plenty of sick children coaxed and coached by parents and congregation elders into being little “mature minors” in order to convince medical staff not to administer blood product forbidden by Watchtower teaching. It’s such a tragedy, not to mention a travesty.
When you say stuff like that Marvin, I have to wonder....
The "medical staff" has absolutely NO capability to declare anyone a "mature minor", since it's outside of their professional bounds as healthcare providers. The hospital has an obligation to seek out a ruling from a judge in court, which serves a role in society to provide a systems of checks and balances on behalf of the citizenry.
Awarding a minor the right to decide as an adult is a LEGAL determination made by a judge, and it's not a MEDICAL diagnosis; a moment's thought should reveal why it would be extremely unethical and illegal for a doctor to make this legal determination (eg an MD would be able to decide which under-age pts he'd give abortions to).
Marvin said- The whole scenario makes Watchtower’s top leadership nothing short of bloodguilty mobsters in my book.
You're showing signs of your clear-cut biases, yet again. The issue of blood transfusion is not as simple as you'd make it out to be.
For one, it's highly questionable to rely on hear-say in these kinds of situations, esp when it's coming from those who aren't privy to the patient's medical details, and likely wouldn't understand the significance of the notes inside even if they were handed the charts.
For all we know, the doctors may have determined that the leukemia was incurable and end-stage, and there was little point in putting the boy through debilitating chemo and forced blood transfusions, thus increasing the expense and agony and misery of the family, and only delaying the inevitable. Clinging onto their delusional belief that the boy died a martyr (and hence would be resurrected) was the only silver lining and cold comfort for the family, who were losing a son to leukemia.
The other alternative is that the boy WAS treatable, but his physicians essentially murdered the boy by failing to seek court intervention on his behalf, thus violating their Hippocratic Oath and setting themselves up for losing their licenses and after the criminal trial, being sued in civil court for wrongful death. Occam's razor would force one to conclude this scenario as extremely less probable.
That said, I don't expect you to see how the former scenario of end-stage leukemia would be a more-reasonable approach to facing the unavoidability of death, but certainly you'd admit there may be more to the story that you just don't know, and don't want to even consider?
Heck, as an atheist, I'm all for widening the right to voluntary euthansia to those who live in the U.S. (and not just in OR and WA), since why should JWs exclusively enjoy the right to an accelerated death with dignity, due to harboring a delusional belief that God doesn't want them to eat blood?
Adam