What is the truth?

by hardtobeme 40 Replies latest jw friends

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  JamesThomas

  Can truth be defined from a fanciful position; or understood viewed through a lens of delusion?

  Perhaps the foundational-truth – that many seem to be seeking in various degrees – can only be known via the light of our own true identity.; or in other words: by seeing clearly from and as we truly and genuinely are, rather than through what we merely think, assume or believe ourselves to be.

  Stop for a moment, can it be seen that everything ever thought, believed, felt, and experienced as our entire existence is an ever-changing movement unfolding before a silent, unmoving presence that is closer and more intimately “self” than any cognizant thought, emotion or occurrence? What/who are we really?

  Just asking.
  
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  Fisherman

  What is the Truth?
  

  Too bad you don't know. "The truth" is something that you know. And the reason that you know is because you have taken a measurement, not once, but a thousand times, or as many times as you need to. Therefore, the truth is a fact. You know for a fact. But when you know the truth, you have no duty to try to prove it to others. And you can't prove it to others. And you have peace of mind because you do not need to search anymore. It is like a trump card and cannot be invalidated with another fact. The truth trumps all facts. The truth is beyond science. If the mountains would flee, and the sun would fail and so did the moon and if the stars would fall from heaven, if you were loosing your mind, if everything that is real would fail you, if you could not see the difference between fantasy and reality, if nothing made sense, even id the bible stopped making sense (and that could never happen) , if you were totally blind and everything that you thought was real turned out to be nonsense, the truth would not fail you, it would never, never, never, ever betray you, and with the eye of your mind you could hold on and grasp it solidly, and you could base your thinking on it and even all of the laws of the universe and of nature need to take their humble place after it. The truth is known by others too and you can look at each other in the eye and acknowledge that you know. And because you KNOW, you also know who the phoneys are, and these talk and teach and lead, but they do not know the truth.

  If you ever saw the movie, "Once Upon A Time In The West", in the last scene, the gunfight between Charles Bronson and Henry Fonda, HF asks CB: "Who are you?" CB responds:"Only at the point of dying!" So they have the ceremonial duel, and CB fatally shoots HF, and as HF is dying he asks CB: "Who are you! Who are you?!" CB then tears off the harmonica hanging under his neck with a string and puts it between the teeth of HF just before HF's face hits the dirt to die, but as HF's face hits the dirt (ground), poetically, the truth hits him at the same time, too, and he knows, and then he dies.
  
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  Fisherman

  "What is Truth" - Pontius Pilate
  

  The remark or question to Jesus unveils something about Pontius Pilate. People in Jesus' day did some philosophical thinking too. PP view of things was the result of his education as a Roman and his social environment, as it is also with everyone in general regardless of era. But besides being a Roman, PP was also a human being with the same feelings and questions as everyone who is searching for answers. One looks at the world around and wonders if there is some reason that ties everything together. questions about death, life, suffering, purpose, the universe,God, the future... and there are a lot of people offering explanations and assertions that what they have is it. Some of those people could have been the Sadducees or Pharisees at that time who professed to know answers, and who challenged Jesus who proclaimed that he was the way and the truth and life, or, the philosophy of the Romans, but Pilate's remark reveals about him that he did not claim to have the answer, and that he had thought about it, and that he did not know. Whether his remark was a rhetorical question, or did he mean: "Who could possibly know the truth!" or did he really ask Jesus the question to hear what Jesus would answer, the Bible does not say. What can be concluded is that Pilate did not profess to know, and also, that he had pondered about it before.
  
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  Xanthippe

  Truth about what specifically?
  About the question Pilate asked Jesus....

  Oh yes you are a philosophy student aren't you! Very amusing, thanks.
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  truthseeker100

  What is truth?

  It's similar to a proof. One of our former prime ministers here in Canada, Jean Cretien was asked what a proof was? He said "A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven." LOL
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  Finkelstein

  The WTS has intensionally manipulated and exploited the word "Truth" to allure people to the organization

  and to help in creating an identity for its internal agenda of literature distribution.
  

  The professed truth of the Gospel was really false teachings devised to draw attention and proliferate the literature the WTS. published.
  
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  bohm

  Importantly, truth is a property a proposition may or may not have. That is the main problem in the wtbs treating the truth like an object (it is the truth)
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  Viviane

  But when you know the truth, you have no duty to try to prove it to others. And you can't prove it to others.

  Well, there is it. The most ridiculous thing I'll read all day. Please appreciate the effort required to not use more colorful language when describing the most ridiculous thing I'll read all day.
• 

  Icarus

  I was speaking to an older CO who was of the anointed. To make some other point he read this scripture. When he finished reading, I observed that Jesus didn't answer Pilate. The CO looked at me and said, Yes he did!" Wha...? Years, and I mean like 20 years later, I saw a WT that attempted to answer the question. It took that long for the spirit guided WTBS to respond to such a universal question: Why didn't Jesus answer him? He could have explained one of the most fundamental questions asked by man right there! Whatever his reason, he failed. The guy who helped create the earth and everything that exists, surely would have known how to answer that in a way that would have made his case for all future generations. I think he didn't have the answer. As has been mentioned in earlier comments, It could have been taken as a conversation stopper. Or, Jesus might have felt Pilate would not have accepted anything he said. But, I think it shows the lack of wisdom in the Bible writers that they posed the question at all. It shows God's Son as not having an answer. It shows a government official being the one to have the last say over Jesus' message, in no uncertain terms, shutting him up. Jesus, in effect saying, I have an answer for everything else, but I don't have an answer for that.
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  Ruby456

  what an interesting discussion this is!

  I want to pick up on something fisherman said in his second post above about Pontius Pilate's and his background as a Roman and using this I want to reply to the op.

  In re-reading your OP hardtobeme, I muse that Jesus does not appear to object to Pilate asking what is truth either and want to situate the discussion between the two in the context of rivalries and friendships. For example regarding rivalry remember what Jesus said about John the baptist and the least and greatest ones in the kingdom of the heavens (Matt 11:11) and also with what he said about the kingdom of heavens having many abodes? (Jn 14:2). These examples suggest to me that he was at home with rivalries. Regarding friendships didn't Jesus say I call you my friends to his disciples? (Jn 15:15). In Israel too the historical context was also rife with rivalries, enmities and friendships.

  Pilate's background was also from a base of rivalries and friendships - think roman republicanism - Cicero, Julius Caesar, Pompey, Mark Antony etc.

  So, re the scene in your op hardtobeme, we have Jesus and Pilate confronting each other as rivals and perhaps as would be friends cos Pilate finds nothing wrong with Jesus and wants to have him released. Jesus as the op suggests did not know the answer for Pilate. Truth in this sort of situation would be treated with toleration and respect and as something to be rivals and friends over like in a democratic world, perhaps reaching consensus for leadership purposes until the next fight for leadership comes along.

  edit: I can see that some here would object that i am reading a modern perspective into an ancient text/exchange. But for the reasons I have stated above I hope you can see that I am not doing that.