by Daniel1555 30 Replies latest jw friends
It is boomerang time!
Do you want to encourage people who have escaped from the mental ward to come back?
Your heart is in the right place, but you aren't thinking clearly.
The Kingdom Hall is a place of contagion. If you show kindness to a person who is on the road of possible recovery you are sneezing
smallpox germs in their face.
Try to think about it with some sanity.
I remember one time, a young sister was DFed and she was really loved by everybody. In the months that followed dozens of JWs were seen associating with her. It got so bad that the PO had to give a "special needs" talk about it, and he warned that anybody that continued to do it would be DFed too.
Another angle on this issue is when you see someone who you know is DFed but you haven't seen him for years so they don't know you are "out". Happened to me the other day when i saw one at a bowling alley.
I go up to him and say :
" Hey xxxx, how's it going?"
Him: " Hi C, i'm good, but not sure if you know... i'm DFed".
Me: " Oh i know, but i don't give a $hit about what those fuck3rs say..
No further explanations were needed!!
For the last few years I was in, I did this, it felt great... felt like I was letting my conscience dicatate my desicions, not 8 men I had never met.
That was so weird when I was attending, my family members were
the worst. But others in the congregation, they would smile, Elders
would ask how I am I doing. I know for a fact, if I walked into that
KH today I would be reinstated with in six months. Why, because
all family, three Elders are family. The reason why I would be
reinstated so fast, it would bring the family (non JW and JW) back
together.
Funny, I made the same decision a few years ago. When someone points out "you so and so is difellowshipped", i play stupid:Yeah, thanks for telling me"
Adamah said-
If someone really wanted to show TRUE LOVE and help the DFed person, they wouldn't be going to meetings, etc in the first place. The policy is BS, and you can only vote with YOUR feet, accepting a personal responsibility for your helping perpetuate a harmful practice. Your attempts to show basic human compassion is only likely to be read as a sign that some JWs have a sense of compassion, thus confirming that the decision to seek reinstatement is correct (as confirmed by the chilling words of Kidding Me, above who said):
Kidding me said-
I have been wondering about this more lately. I always smile at DF'd ones, especially the youth. I've heard from some thatgot reinstated that it's encouraging.
Oh Adamah...if it were only that simple. I get what you are saying and in theory, I agree. However, this is not your typical bullying situation that can be resolved by someone taking a stand for the victim. We are talking about a group (including most of the DF'd ones) that are "programmed" to believe that this is the right thing to do.
How would little old me not attending any more meetings show TRUE LOVE and help for the DF'd one?? What would be the result? Will the rest of the organization follow suit? Or will they look at it as if I got caught up in my own feelings with regard to the policy? Meanwhile, the DF'd one I smiled at, could still choose to stay on their road to reinstatement. It would take the majority (not one, several or even an entire congregation) of JWs to follow suit for it to be taken seriously.
My point, everyone would have to be on the same page for this to be effective. I can't even get my own family "awake" and on the same page and I would be of no benefit to them on the outside. The risk has to be worth the reward. Right now it's not for me.
As for showing basic human compassion and thus confirming the decision to seek reinstatement - if the person is attending the meetings, they for the most part have already made a decision to seek reinstatement.
I just feel that there are high days and low days, and if my little smile (or even a discreet hi in passing) can be of some benefit, then why not? Maybe they are on the verge of completely giving up, doing harm to themself or someone else. Just to know that someone still cares could make a difference.
Do what comes naturally - smiles come naturally. (:
At one memorial I sat with my boisterous grandkids next to a lady I didn't recognise. After the affair was over I apologised profusely for the kids' disturbing her. I'll never forget the look of horror on her face - and she didn't speak one word. Someone told me she was df'd. But I didn't get it - it's really rude to not respond to a person who's speaking directly to you.
One girl in the kh was df'd when she got pregnant and wasn't married - and elder's daughter. I saw her at a fast-food restaurant once and it was the only time I ever tried shunning. Not pleasant, felt SO wrong, and I never did it again. From then on I always smiled and winked at her at the kh, and she smiled and winked back. I felt like we were getting away with something 'naughty', lol.
I saw her a couple years later when I was out, and apologised for that one time - she said she didn't even remember it, but boy, I did - made me feel awful. Good lesson, though.
I was shunned by a jw woman and her family once - I figured I was 'marked' for missing meetings and never going back. That hurt like I didn't think it could - and made me mad, too! Walk a mile in those shoes ... I don't ever run into jws anymore as we live out in the country - YAH!
Different people react differently. But to do the natural thing out of love and real affection - a smile, a hug, a few words... never wrong.
W
So how's this going to help the disfellowshipped person who is trying to get back in? If I were disfellowshipped and trying to get back in, I do not think I would appreciate anyone publically greeting me (especially in front of brothers and sisters in the hall itself).
Try to work out your own issues with the organization by not inadvertently exposing others to your good intentions.
KiddingMe said-
Oh Adamah...if it were only that simple. I get what you are saying and in theory, I agree. However, this is not your typical bullying situation that can be resolved by someone taking a stand for the victim. We are talking about a group (including most of the DF'd ones) that are "programmed" to believe that this is the right thing to do.
I'm coming at it from the perspective where it ALL looks absolutely silly to me, having been away from such thought-stopping behaviors for a LONG time, so perhaps I'm seeing the shunning behavior for what it is: an attempt to control others by using the most-powerful force known to man (sans physical force): social ostracism.
JWs are like a gang of kids who play make-believe, but insist that everyone in the group plays it "their" way, since they got the "right" rules from Brooklyn. If you want to express any input as to why the rules are illogical, they refuse to play with you, and kick you out of the gang.
Having to ask oneself, "Who are we, as a group, ignoring now?" is an absolutely silly and childish thing to have to even ask oneself, and it speaks to the small-minded pettiness of a collective group, which is something you either recognize or you don't. Those who support the group and it's goals obviously don't see anything wrong with it, and hence WHY they're in such groups, in the first place.
So it's as difficult OR as simple as you want to make it, since in the end it's up to you as an individual to realize the role you play in contributing to what is simply a dysfunctional social construct (and not especially unique to JWs: it's called 'group dynamics'). You could run into the same power dynamics within the Tea Party, etc.
Granted, greeting DFed people openly is one step towards rejecting the authority of the elders who control the group: in that regard, it's a useful stepping stone (as snare and racket and others have said) to build up one's confidence in learning to overcome the fear of defying authority. Point being, it can be useful if used as part of the process of liberating yourself from the group, but it does potentially come at a cost to others (i.e. it confirms the benefit of being in the group, since you are hoping to be seen as a caring member of the group; if the intent is to show how cool the people in the group really are, it's only driving that person deeper into their mire by increasing the value of the group).
How would little old me not attending any more meetings show TRUE LOVE and help for the DF'd one?? What would be the result? Will the rest of the organization follow suit? Or will they look at it as if I got caught up in my own feelings with regard to the policy? Meanwhile, the DF'd one I smiled at, could still choose to stay on their road to reinstatement. It would take the majority (not one, several or even an entire congregation) of JWs to follow suit for it to be taken seriously.
At the end of the day, you can ONLY save yourself, since you can only control yourself. There are some weak-minded and weak-willed individuals who will NEVER leave the protection they sense from being a member of the group, and hence why groups persist. It is driven by the herding instinct of some humans (and it's no accident that Jesus spoke of herd animals).
(BTW, see the irony there, since the JWs believe they CAN control others using the threat of being excluded from the group, a fear which gives shunning its power?)
My point, everyone would have to be on the same page for this to be effective. I can't even get my own family "awake" and on the same page and I would be of no benefit to them on the outside. The risk has to be worth the reward. Right now it's not for me.
To each, their own. Hopefully you were not looking for others to only PRAISE you: are you SURE you're not actually still looking for approval from others in the group?
Point being, take ownership and responsibility for the harmful acts YOU caused as a member of the group, as that's the first step of moving on with your life. It's not avoiding inflicting harm, since if you DON'T, someone else WILL.
As for showing basic human compassion and thus confirming the decision to seek reinstatement - if the person is attending the meetings, they for the most part have already made a decision to seek reinstatement.
Exactly, and that's why you probably should follow the JW policy to a tee and not try to be Mr Nice Guy: it might get them to realize the ramifications of what happens when they are unwilling to take control of their own lives, and ask the same questions that leads one to discover TTATT.
I just feel that there are high days and low days, and if my little smile (or even a discreet hi in passing) can be of some benefit, then why not? Maybe they are on the verge of completely giving up, doing harm to themself or someone else. Just to know that someone still cares could make a difference.
"Could make a difference for what", exactly?
My point is this: look in the mirror and ask yourself who's ego are you actually serving by trying to "make a difference" in their lives? Their ego, or yours?
The JWs are actually comprised of a group of friendly, well-intentioned people who just have a nasty habit of socially-ostracizing anyone who doesn't share the delusion: do you expect to change that anytime soon?
Adam
How about asking permission? Ask the DF'd person if it is OK to address them in the hall. That leaves them in the driver's seat and the elders in the parking lot.
