Why does it matter?

tenyearsafter

I have been on this forum for a number of years now, and one thing that seems to be a persisting theme is the "battle" between Atheists and Believers.

What I have not understood is the extent to which the supporters of either side engage in showing their position to be the correct one...and in turn debunking and demeaning the opposing position, or in many cases, insulting the intelligence of the holder of opposing belief. I guess the simple question is, why? Does it really matter, or cause harm to be a supporter of either side of the coin? I am not talking about harmful cults, but moderate people of either leaning.

I am sure that Believers will say that they are charged with sharing the Gospel to help save non-believers from an eternal judgment, but putting that aside, why would it matter that someone is an Atheist or Agnostic? Conversely, why would Atheists care if someone is a Believer (again, not a cultist).

I would be interested in hearing from those that feel compelled to set the other side straight as to why they feel that is so important.

prologos

To me it matters, because this issue touches the ultimate truth., reality.

The hope is by reading, asking questions, enlightenment can be had.

Once it descends into the personal, human domain

there is no gain.

OnTheWayOut

In face-to-face discussions, I rarely engage in such debate. On this forum, many threads lead to this believer/unbeliever debate. I have started some of them myself. The subject can be steered clear of. Many do. I often take my leave when they disintegrate into the same old arguments. That's the advantage of having such discussions here. Everyone can cool off by walking away from it.

Why does it matter? Many are trying to get over the pain of a religious dangerous mind-control cult. Former JW's have been made to have strong views of "Christendom." We were told to just trust and believe. And, many of us have had a hard time believing that a loving, caring creator would have let us remain in "the lie" or to let our loved ones treat us like garbage because they think they are serving "Him."

When someone indicates that those who don't "hear" from God/the Lord are just not listening, they don't know how much of an insult they are really distributing to some of the most engaged minds on the matter. Many of the atheists here didn't want to stop believing. Their spiritual journey led them there. Telling someone who has read the entire Bible more than once, learned about non-Christian religions, examined both sides of the issue and seriously looked at what science actually says, "You just aren't willing to listen to Jesus" - well, that is just ignorant.

As far as moderate belief or agnosticism goes, I suppose it doesn't matter. If both sides could be that way, it wouldn't matter. But even the most radical of one side or the other, even if they start their own discussion board for agreeing with them, sneak back here under a new alias to keep the fire of disagreement alive and well.

tootired2care

The way that I see it, is that what you call a battle, I call an interesting and important discussion. It really is the most important discussion of our time in my opinion. At least for me I just see so much lost potential in society as whole being restrained by religious constructs which have tethered mankind from reaching its true potential. I see religion still trying to mix with politcs here in the U.S., people trying to get ID in schools, people like Rick Santorum trying to censor the internet. How can we move ahead as a society with thinking like this that pervades public office?

Hitchins and Dawkins, and other have started a movement to strongly push back against religion because of the socio/political, and lost potential it causes.

The discussion is important and it matters.

tenyearsafter

Prologos - I understand that truth is reality, but if a person wants to believe in what you percieve to be a fantasy, why would it matter if they aren't harming others or engaging in negative or condescending comments about the opposing view?

OTWO - I tend to be more like you and take a moderate point of view. I agree that zealots of either persuasion are going to go on their self appointed crusades...and JW's are typical of that mind set, and the reason I didn't include the extremes in my question. I understand this is a discussion board, but it often tends to deteriote in to an insult forum. I enjoy reading the comments and thoughts of our posters, but I get turned off when it degrades to name calling.

tenyearsafter

tootired2care (love the name!) - I agree when it stays civil, interesting and a discussion. I also agree that certain elements on the religious right (Christians, Muslims, etc.) try to force society to accept their world view. Interestingly, there are also extremists on the Atheist side such as The Freedom From Religion movement that try and force feed their world view. I guess what I find interesting is that the majority of us broke free of condemnatory mind control by leaving the WTS. We all were guilty of looking down on anyone who didn't have the "Truth", yet many of us still engage in that type of behavior in whatever our "new" belief or non-belief system might be by looking down on the opposing view point. Again, I agree the discussion is important.

tootired2care

tenyearsafter - I agree, lively or heated discussion, is no excuse for bad manners, and lack of civility; certainly I've been guilty myself of such behavior at times. You make a fair point about looking down at others, and I can't speak for everyone, but for me, I don't look down at people. I engage in such discussions because it's interesting to me, and I want to give voice to what I've come to understand, test my own perceptions, and not to talk or look down on others.

EdenOne

I personally don't have issues with whatever beliefs or lack thereof others hold true. I only engage in such discussions when someone challenges me by claiming or implying that people of faith are intellectually challenged.

Eden

Hortensia

There is a serious lack of critical thinking in the world today. People just believe what they hear, or what someone charismatic says, or what their parents believed. It has a devastating affect on everyone, when, for instance, some idiot is elected to city/state/national office. Also, the more extreme of the believers try very hard and are often successful at passing laws to regulate the rest of us according to their beliefs.

I don't care what people believe, but I do object to them trying to run my life. I would like to see people become more skillful at critical thinking, at challenging ideas and beliefs, asking questions, demanding proof.

tenyearsafter

tootired2care - Well said!

EdenOne - I agree...believer or not, intelligence shouldn't be judged by personal beliefs.

Hortensia - Yep, critical thinking is important...and challenging questions done in a respectful way are ok with me. People need to keep it civil, as you will rarely persuade someone by insulting or demeaning them!

Why does it matter?

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