Is JW Baptism the Only Valid Baptism?

by Cold Steel 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Cold Steel

  Bobcat: as far as personal entry (into the Christian community) is concerned, God desires 'all to be saved' (1 Tim 2:4), and baptism, as a ritual for entry into the Christian community, was already determined by Jesus (Mt 28:18-20). The commentary above footnotes the fact that "keys" (plural) is more suited for storehouses than for an admission gate.

  The “keys” are, I believe, metaphors, not for entry into Heaven, but binding powers or, as the ancient texts put it, “sealings.” When someone was baptized, it required authority. If someone came along, as they later did, and say that the Lord accepts sprinkle baptism as well as, or instead of, immersion, such would require the correct authorization. We know that John the Baptist, through the lineage of his father, held the ancient priesthood of Aaron, the brother of Moses. It was important that those baptized in the new church be baptized by authorized and ordained ministers of the gospel who acted under the direction and authorization of the apostles, who were the general authorities of the church.

  The Keys of the Kingdom were intended to ensure that the apostles maintain control over the church and the way the ordinances were administered. Naturally, if someone obtained an ordinance through deception, the keys would not override the judgment which Jesus, alone, holds the keys of.

  And see Isaiah's comments about "Shebna" in Isa. 22:15-19, who was the "steward" prior to Eliakim, and see if you notice any similarities between him and the current GB.

  “And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down.” —Isa. 22:19

  Well, I can see where it would be significant to former Jehovah's Witnesses; however, to a non-JW, the Governing Body was never in a legitimate station or state. Keep in mind that the religion is in a peculiar position. Jesus clearly had a church, yet for some reason I truly don’t understand, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society doesn’t claim to be a church. My question is, how can a publishing company oversee an ordinance like baptism? How can it speak for God if it has not the necessary keys?

  Again, how do we know they’re necessary? Because Jesus wouldn’t have taken the time or effort to 1) mention it to Peter, and 2) actually confer the keys? Recall that he said, “And I will give unto thee....” (meaning it was a future event). He could have said, “And I give thee the keys” but he didn’t say that. If the Jehovah's Witnesses represent God today, they have to either purport one of two possibilities: One, that they’re no longer needed, or two, that they possess said keys today.

  Instead, the Outfit has decided to ignore them, which isn’t acceptable as far as I’m concerned.

  If Blondie has her ears on, perhaps she can search her documentation for “Keys of the Kingdom.” Or maybe someone else knows.

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  Jeffro

  Getting baptized may be of some benefit if it's a particularly hot day. Other than that, there's really no point.
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  wearewatchingyouman

  "JWs believe baptism is essential for the anointed. Not necessarily for the great crowd,....."

  Interesting... Why is that? Biblically speaking, what is the point of being baptised but not annointed in the Spirit of God?
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  Fernando

  I would suggest that the apostate Watchtower ruling religious clergy class are totally blind to the spiritual dimensions (and therefore the reality) of baptism.

  The physical ritual is merely a shadow (w52 7/15 pp. 437-445).

  The apostate faction within the WBTS does promote the apostasies of "organisational salvation" and "baptismal salvation".

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/246453/1/Opposing-salvation-factions-in-the-Schizophrenic-and-Apostate-Watchtower
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  Cold Steel

  Laika: This could be a problem for the evangelicals (baptism is only a symbol!?) but less so for the JWs. They think the scripture you quoted is a later [addition] and has been removed from their recently revised New World Translation.

  Okay, you begin by talking about evangelicals and end by saying the passage about Jesus saying, “He who believeth and is baptized shall be saved” has been removed from “their” recently revised New World Translation. I’m assuming by “evangelicals” you mean the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

  Well, the Society can remove what they want from the scriptures, but just because an earlier version doesn’t have a phrase or passage doesn’t mean it’s the most pristine version. If the pristine version turns out to be the later version (because it was copied from an earlier, pristine, document), then the translator has made an error. Some scholars believe this was the case for the end of the Lord’s prayer: “For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.” The reason, because without it the prayer just ends prematurely. In short, the later version with the missing passage makes more sense than the one that just ends. This may be because the earlier source is correct, or it could be that later clerics noticed the gap and added something appropriate to make it end with greater effect.

  So this is only something that can be answered by revelation. It’s clear that many believers have, for one reason or another, not been baptized. And it’s clear that many people have lived and died without hearing the gospel preached. This is one reason the scriptures state that while Jesus’ body lay in the tomb, his spirit went “and preached to the spirits in prison” which sometimes were disobedient in the days of Noah. Peter also states, “For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.” (See 1 Peter 3:18-20; 1 Peter 4:6.)

  Thus, even though these people may be dead, they can hear the gospel preached to them so they may be “judged according to men in the flesh,” yet “live according to God in the spirit.” This is one reason the soul sleeping doctrine just doesn’t work.

  If Mormons still have apostles do they have confession and absolution (based on John 20:23)? Am I right in saying Mormons believe Peter, James and John are still alive and wandering the Earth or is this is a myth like the 'magic' underwear? And if so, how come your leaders haven't included them in the Mormon group of 12 apostles?

  There are sins of a serious nature which must be confessed with one’s bishop, who are given the keys of authority over their jurisdictions. And if the Holy Spirit dictates, they can forgive sins.

  As for Peter, James, and John wandering the earth, no. They appeared only to convey the higher “Melchizedek” priesthood and the Keys of the Kingdom, though not all at once. Moses and Elijah later returned with additional keys. Moses restored the keys of the gathering of Israel, which coincidentally began very shortly after the keys were conveyed, and Elijah appeared in fulfillment of prophecy with the keys to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and vice versa. In all cases, the keys were restored to two men, fulfilling the law of witnesses. When Muhammad, Joan of Arc, Ellen G. White, and, later, Charles Taze Russell, claimed some angelic ministration, they were the only ones who experienced it. There were no witnesses. The Book of Mormon had three witnesses who saw the angel, the gold plates upon which the scriptures were written, heard the voice of God and to their dying days never once denied their testimony. There were also eight witnesses who saw only the gold plates, with no angel, no voice of God, and so forth. They, too, never denied their testimonies. In short, in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

  Now much has been said about the so-called “magic underwear” that is worn by members who have been through the temple. These are simply sacred vestments worn under the clothing (see Exodus 28). Many priesthood recipients wear vestments over the clothing; however, because the Latter-day Saints have a lay priesthood, our vestments are worn under our street clothing.

  Again, touching on Peter, James and John, these men were apostles in their own day and they hold the keys of their dispensation, which is called the Dispensation of the Meridian of Time, in which Jesus lived. Today, we believe that Joseph Smith and others hold the keys of the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times in which the “restoration of all things” will be completed. According to our teachings, the keys of the kingdom have been restored for the last time and will never be taken from the earth, but will remain here throughout the Millennium.

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  Julia Orwell

  Cold Steel: "Yes, so baptisms by “apostate” Christians have no valid authority. But what if a person were baptized by a non-denominational Christian, someone who said, “We have no established doctrine or creeds, but we will baptize you by immersion in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”? My point is, what makes the Jehovah's Witnesses believe that they hold the “keys” to baptize, and that no one else may do it? "

  First question, that is still not valid because JWs believe that to have God's approval and authority in any way, shape or form, they MUST be part of the JW organisation. The second question: the answer to that is the same as why they think they and they alone are the true religion. That they were chosen by Jehovah in 191-whenever as the 'approved' and true religion. No reference is ever made to 'keys' because that is one of the zillions of scriptures they marginalise. It's all nuts. There is no good reason for the way they do, but I tell you what makes them think there is. It's hard to comprehend unless you've been part of it.
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  Farkel

  :Is JW Baptism the Only Valid Baptism?

  It is no more invalid than all the others.

  Farkel
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  Julia Orwell

  Hey so did that ghostly aparition-looking Jesus really visit Joseph Smith and that other guy like in the bottom picture? They look like they're really freaking out. Maybe they're freaking out that Jesus told Joseph Smith to marry 27 women and Brigham Young over 70. That's enough to freak out most normal men.
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  Vanderhoven7

  marked
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  Cold Steel

  Julia Orwell: My point is, what makes the Jehovah's Witnesses believe that they hold the “keys” to baptize, and that no one else may do it?"

  This is what I've tried to understand for years. They say they're not a church. They don't call or ordained authorized ministerial servants and, indeed, have never felt they had a right to. Can just anyone baptize if it's done in faith, even by someone with no doctrine or creeds; just a believer in Christ? No. A person must be baptized and called and ordained to the same priesthood as held by John the Baptist, or the higher Melchizedek priesthood, which encompasses the priesthood of John. Thus, only ordained ministers of Jesus Christ can baptize, confer the gift of the Holy Ghost, ordain others, anoint and bless the sick. And these ministers must operate under the authority of those who hold the everlasting keys of the kingdom. The words one utters before immersing someone are given to the Lord's servants who hold the keys.

  It's a lot like military service. Lower ranks cannot operate on their own authority, but must work within the established perimeters of the system. If a military unit was acting on the orders of a high-ranking General and someone rode up on a bicycle and said, “The General told me to tell you guys to stand down and return to base using the old Deathtrap Road,” would the ranking Colonel say, “Okay, thanks for the news...Lieutenant, you heard the man, get everyone organized and let’s head back!” Of course not. There are chains of command. But in the religious world, there’s a guy on a bicycle riding up every fifteen minutes!

  So what of those who receive baptism from someone without the keys? Will they be damned, or will they be denied eternal life? Not if God is a just and holy being who loves his children. God also will not destroy or condemn someone who has never heard the gospel of the living Christ. If he did, he would not be just, and he would not be a God of love and compassion. Too many people draw the line at death, and most of mankind in not ready to be judged at the time they die. They don’t know enough or progressed enough to be justly judged. If a person has not heard the gospel and passes into death, he or she will be taught it after they pass into Paradise. That’s what happened to the malefactor who died with Jesus on the cross. As the great scholar Origen said, and I’ve quoted it before, “After death, I think the saints go to Paradise, a place of teaching, a school of the spirits in which everything they saw on Earth will be made clear to them. Those who were pure in heart will progress more rapidly, reaching the kingdom of heaven by definite steps or degrees.”

  As one scholar notes:

  Clement of Alexandria and Origen, those two earliest fathers, each having one foot in the old church and one in the new, characteristically accepted the doctrine of eternal progression at first, then rejected it when the schoolmen finally talked them out of it. In Origen’s universe there are more exalted beings who leave the less exalted beings further and further behind. He compares their advancements to a series of examinations and makes much of the three degrees of glory—“three celestial levels, like the sun, the moon, and the stars.” According to him, the visible world is only a small fraction of the invisible world, which in turn is only a small fraction of the potential world that is to become reality in the aeons ahead.

  My point is that the system which was so carefully worked out in the beginning was designed to work equitably for the benefit of man. But God is a God of order, and who balances his actions on a scale of both justice and mercy.

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