Revealing a counterfeit CLAIM: JW's as ordained ministers

by Terry 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Terry

  STOP AND THINK

  Peter and John were "unlearned and ignorant men" without training in any ecclesiastical rabbinical school of their day.

  Acts 4:13

  New King James Version (NKJV)

  13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated and untrained men, they marveled. And they realized that they had been with Jesus.

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  The Apostles were ordinary working men required to do an extraordinary task.

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  2 Corinthians 5:20

  New King James Version (NKJV)

  20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.

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  After Pentecost a miraculous baptism in Holy Spirit empowered ordinary and uneducated men to carry out the previously impossible commission of Christ.

  Spirit begotten anointed were galvanized for the work.

  Ephesians 6:18-20

  New King James Version (NKJV)

  18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints— 19 and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

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  The Holy Spirit made the impossible possible MIRACULOUSLY in order for the establishment of Christianity to occur.

  It did occur. Christianity IS already established. Mission accomplished.

  Then, the miraculous gift of the Spirit was taken away.

  1 Corinthians 13: 8-10

  whether there be prophecies, they shall be done away; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall be done away.

  9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part;

  10 but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.

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  Today, Christians aren't authorized by intervention of Holy Spirit to perform exorcisms, handle poisonous serpents, heal miraculously or to speak in tongues.

  Those who claim to be of Jehovah's anointed cannot claim any of these special powers any longer.

  Pentecost was long ago. The invisible return of Jesus was one hundred years ago.

  Jesus under inspiration of Holy Spirit applied this scripture to his own ministry:

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  saiah 61:1-2

  American Standard Version (ASV)

  61 The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is upon me; because Jehovah hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

  2 to proclaim the year of Jehovah's favor, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn

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  In view of the above, any claim of being anointed and taught by Holy Spirit in some miraculous way must be counterfeit today for

  NON-ANOINTED other sheep who are of the Great Crowd.

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  So, why are they required to go door-to-door?

  They have no claim to being taught miraculously as the Apostles could claim.

  They aren't ordained, attend no seminaries, complete no certification and graduate with no honors, skills, languages and such.

  HOW IS THIS LEGITIMATE ?
• 

  Gopher

  Apparently anything is legitimate if Jehovah, I mean the Watchtower Society says it is so.

  The WT would say this: Daniel 12 says that the true knowledge would become abundant in the last days. Proverbs says the light will grow brighter. So the quantity of "true" knowledge now available is greater than ever before. Then you tie that in with Matthew 24:14 which we all know by heart, and Paul's admonition that "woe is me if I didn't declare the good news", then you have their reasoning as to why every JW is required to publicly declare the good news the Watchtower's message.

  Also Ephesians 6 that you quoted used the term "ambassador". As it does with almost every other term in the New Testament, the Watchtower has turned that into the "ambassador class", whereas the non-anointed lackies are "envoys" (supporting the ambassadors). There aren't enough ambassadors to fulfill Matthew 24:14 so OF COURSE all the envoys are called to preach.

  This in spite of all logic and even Biblical reasoning to the contrary.
• 

  Terry

  The WT would say this: Daniel 12 says that the true knowledge would become abundant in the last days. Proverbs says the light will grow brighter. So the quantity of "true" knowledge now available is greater than ever before. Then you tie that in with Matthew 24:14 which we all know by heart, and Paul's admonition that "woe is me if I didn't declare the good news", then you have their reasoning as to why every JW is required to publicly declare the good news the Watchtower's message.

  CONTEXT is a real problem for the Watchtower.

  The who/what/when/where details get tossed away by the Society as they approach theology as an exercise in wilfull cut-and-paste assembly.

  The Scriptures the GB use to explain things are like tinkertoys.

  "Meaning" cannot be accurately assembled out of spare parts.

  Exegesis is not accomplished by its opposite: eisegesis.

  So many instances of New Light have been triggered by the old computer programmer's adage: Garbage In = Garbage Out.

  Take the example of Noah preaching for 120 years in warning of the Flood coming.

  Noah was the Governing Body of his own family. Did he make any others preach along side him? No.

  That was his job. It was non-transferable.

  The divine gifts at Pentecost were for that day and time only. According to the Watch Tower's teaching, too.

  Yet, when the miraculous "teaching" of the Holy Spirit ceased, the WT wants it to remain in effect!

  How?

  By sending ordinary uneducated people out to preach AS THOUGH they could miraculously qualify alongside the Apostles.

  Sorry--that's won't work!

  People today have to go to special schools to acquire knowledge enabling them to qualify for ordination.

  JW's merely ASSUME ordination at baptism! Yes, WITHOUT any qualification other than their own declaration!

  Medicine, mathematics, science, etc. require a proficiency acquired through study and testing to insure quality of understanding and practice in the student.

  Jehovah's Witnesses are rank amateurs who make things up as they go!

  Their claims of ordination are disgraceful empty self-aggrandizement.
• 

  tec

  Yes, good point.

  Ordained... by men. Not by Christ or God.

  Your regular door-to-door jw is not even ALLOWED to be 'ordained' by Christ. Not allowed to partake; not allowed to be annointed (receive holy spirit... so as to BE ordained by THE Holy Spirit)

  So what good is it to be ordained by men?

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  Finkelstein

  JWs get trained in peddling the WTS products door to door subjectively ordained in the commercialization of the Watchtower Corporation.
• 

  Terry

  Your regular door-to-door jw is not even ALLOWED to be 'ordained' by Christ. Not allowed to partake; not allowed to be annointed (receive holy spirit... so as to BE ordained by THE Holy Spirit)

  Good to EMPHASIZE the point you made: NOT ALLOWED TO BE anointed (forbidden at communion to BE in communion with Jesus).
• 

  mind blown

  booked marked

  By the way Terri...Thank you for taking time out posting hearty topix....
• 

  Island Man

  Take the example of Noah preaching for 120 years in warning of the Flood coming.

  Terry, without wishing to sound like I'm negatively picking on you, I think the above is an unprovable claim. It's a claim that JWs and many other christians make but is actually unsubstantiated in the bible.

  When one reads the Genesis account there is absolutely no mention of Noah being told to preach to the people, warning them of an impending flood. One would think that such an important detail would not have been left out if it was part of the instructions given to Noah. Also, when you think of the fact that God gave Noah specific, fixed dimensions for the ark, how likely is it that there would still be room available for an unknown number of people joining them in the ark, as a result of a preaching effort? It seems more likely that by the time Noah set about building the ark, God had already pronounced his final verdict of death on all but Noah and his family.

  While there is a reference to Noah being "a preacher of righteousness" somewhere in the NT, that passage clearly says he was . . . "a preacher of righteousness" - not "a preacher of impending destruction". And there is nothing that says this preaching of righteousness necessarily took place during the time that he was building the ark. It is very possible that Noah, moved by the wickedness around him, took the initiative to preach righeousness in his early life beforebeing warned about the flood and given instructions to build the ark. I can't imagine him, after being commissioned, taking time out the work he was specifically told to do - build the ark - to do another work he was not instructed to do - preach to the people about a coming flood.

  This assumption that Noah purposefully preached, warning the people of the coming flood, has influenced, in a negative way, the translation of Matthew 24:39 in the NWT. Most JWs read that verse and see it as implying that the people "took no note" of the warning message that Noah preached. However, when one looks at the actual Greek text and the context of the verse, an different understanding emerges. I tackle the NWT's poor translation of Matthew 24:39 here:

  http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130615122630AASKBWi
• 

  Terry

  Take the example of Noah preaching for 120 years in warning of the Flood coming.

  Terry, without wishing to sound like I'm negatively picking on you, I think the above is an unprovable claim. It's a claim that JWs and many other christians make but is actually unsubstantiated in the bible.

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  Are you say any of the Bible can be substantiated?
• 

  3rdgen

  Terry, as I recall, the authors of Watchtower have changed their "understanding" about who is and who is not an "ordained minister. I can remember hearing baptism talks where the speaker stated "Today you are an ordained minister." Hahah 10 and 12 year old girls included. Do you (or anyone else) know what years they believed what on this subject?