Jeffro - I don't think a facepalm would quite do that quote justice. I think something like this is more appropriate
lol
John 3:16 - "believe" or "exercise faith?" Same thing?
by Faithful Witness 30 Replies latest watchtower bible
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wearewatchingyouman
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Loveyourneighbor
I don't know if the translation of John 3:16 is perfectly accurate.
But one thought I have on this is at James 2:19, that the Demons believe and shudder. So just because you beleive in something, doesn't mean you support it or accept it.
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wearewatchingyouman
Love your neighbor - I just started a Topic on this exact point. It's entitled "Faith."
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leaving_quietly
The WTS version of "EXERCISE FAITH" is all about works, but not works according to Paul or James. Both Paul and James viewed works as 'works of the spirit' (aka 'fruitage of the spirit'). Neither attributed works to stuff like preaching, meetings, etc.
See this: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/248990/1/James-2-26-faith-without-works-is-dead
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Crazyguy
Faith should move one to 'works" is what the bible is saying, but 'works' is not going out in service and making oneself a slave to the WT 'works' = fruitage of the spirit. love, kindness, etc.
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wearewatchingyouman
Ah, but to the Witnesses going out in service is showing love, kindness etc. What's more loving than saving someone from their impending doom and sharing "the gospel" with them?
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adamah
Crazyguy said-
Faith should move one to 'works" is what the bible is saying, but 'works' is not going out in service and making oneself a slave to the WT 'works' = fruitage of the spirit. love, kindness, etc.
And that's partly what drives JWs to adopt their infamous "persecution complex", since they know the adversity they face is not really significant, and hence every slammed door on their face becomes equivalent to the martyrdom of early Xians who died in the Roman arena to demonstrate their faith.
JWs must intuitively understand it's a 'false equivalency' and demeaning to suggest their hang-nail is the same sacrifice as dying for God, and hence are primed for their chance to "shine" by eg refusing a blood transfusion, finally getting a chance to "prove their faith" in a life-or-death situation. IN fact, the JWs need an occasional martyr to keep the organization alive, since the existence of martyrs are the justification for their beliefs, the ones who succeed by dying.
It's truly sinister stuff, where in fact all the D2D work actually IS 'exercising their faith' (read: weakening their reasoning capabilities, just as they paradoxically describe the grinding down pf one's conscience by repeatedly sinning, using the metaphor of a spinning wheel with jagged edges). All that 'faith-building' possibly leads up to their personal 'moment of truth', when they can die in the name of a false hope.
Xianity is a topsy-turvy World with a language of its own, conceived of long before Orwell wrote '1984' with it's "newspeak" (i.e. redefining words to mean the exact OPPOSITE of what they used to mean).
Adam
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DS211
I think braincleaned said it well--works of faith. So if my faith moves me to tell others about the bible and how its helped me that is a work of faith. But once i say "do it this way because its the only way, and if you dont, youll die!"--thats when faith is gone and replaced by coersion. Hence then faith would not be faith, nor would any exercise yiu do. Thats like a JW saying the only way to Run is to do 20 pushups 3 times a day, and any other way is wrong and you will never run if you dont do it like this.
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cofty
When I was preaching the gospel I put it like this.
A person is saved thorugh faith in the "work" of Jesus. ie What he achieved through his sacrificial death.
The sinner is then forgiven and adopted as a child of god - no longer a slave. However if a person has been saved from sin his/her life would show evidence of it.
If a person who was perviously dying of terrible disease claimed to have been cured, we would question their claim if they failed to get out of bed and show signs of recovery.
The tension between Paul and James was one of emphasis - the disagreement between their followers seems to have been profound.
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braincleaned
Lol @ adamah!
Indeed... like you say: " I think a more-fitting analogy would be that one shouldn't just flap their jaws about running, or wear track outfit and running shoes while lounging on the sofa eating donuts while being 50 lbs overweight, etc, but the person should actually RUN."Fitting analogy for most 'faithful'.