Cantleave said "As the father of 2 children, why wouldn't I celebrate holidays?"
Because you are the father of 2 children and you should teach them to think for themselves and not be followers.
Since leaving the truth, do you celebrate holidays, and does your participation in such bring you happiness?
by Stand for Pure Worship 102 Replies latest jw friends
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DS211
SFPW--i remember my last christmas with my grandfather, who was basically my father since my dad was not around much. I remember the smell of the tree, ham cooking, and i remember the joy i saw on his face watching everyone of his kids and grandkids opening gifts. And as i watched him breathe it all in i saw in his eyes that he too knew this would be his last Christmas. 11 months later he died. But i never forget it...got it on video and i watch it from time to time.
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confusedandalone
" I remember the smell of the tree, ham cooking, and i remember the joy i saw on his face watching everyone of his kids and grandkids opening gifts."
No doubt that could have been one of the last things that ran through his mind as he took his last breath. Imagine the joy of knowing that up to the end you brought joy to generations of people and that you would leave something for them to remember and pass on to others.
As opposed to the traditional witness grandfather who spends every waking second chastising his kids and grandkids because they don't sling enough magazines.
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EndofMysteries
SFPW - Years ago I left after my conscience wouldn't allow me to have men who claim not to be inspired, yet want me to obey their words as from God himself above what I saw the bible teaching, as well as take their personal viewpoints and opinions which were not in the bible above my conscience.
Now about holidays specifically, for years I didn't give them another thought. However after getting involved with someone, I decided to investigate holidays and see what the bible, my conscience, etc, would allow and what was right and wrong. I did notice a lot of hypocrisy how the WT condemns birthdays for making one special that day and pagan stuff w/ the cake, etc, yet wedding cake which is pagan is still allowed, many parts of the wedding itself, anniversary parties, graduation parties, etc. There is no consistency.
I was getting involved with a christian who celebrated holidays. I asked them if they knew about the pagan origins. They said yes. I asked how could they celebrate them knowing that? If they thought God would be okay with it? They said aside from the fact about it bringing families together, etc, that when they celebrate christmas, they are not at all celebrating pagan sun and moon gods, they are doing it for God, and celebrating him sending his son for our sins. Thousands of years ago it might have been different, but today it's about God. That did seem to go in harmony with Romans 14:5-10 - in which one man judges one day above another, but whoever obverses the day, do it to God, and do not judge your brother who choses to do so. I will also quote Col 2:16 - Therefore let no man judge you in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a sabbath; for those thigns are a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to the Christ.
So scriptually, the fact that when people are doing christmas, they are not saying, lets worship the sun and moon gods, etc, is long lost and it's about God now.
I also think about the effect. Those who stopped all holidays/etc/ vs those who do. I see my family and relatives who are still in. All the familes are very seperated, cold, distant, etc. Then I saw the family of the one I was getting involved with, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc, much more close and always getting together for those events. More loving.
Then I try to think from God's point of view. Those who observe these things, he is looking down. THey are not worshipping false gods and giving them devotion, they are doing it in celebration of him sending his son. They also try to do what Jesus said, helping feed the poor, etc, with extra effort during these times. Does he favor that or favor those who are doing nothing, not being w/ family, if anything shunning those who do do those things.
As for christmas itself, it's possible to do very similar too with things that had no origin thousands of year ago on the pagan aspect. Ornaments for example, if originally they were for sun and moon gods, do ornaments that have nothing to do with it. What does an ornament of hot chocolate, or a vacation spot, etc have to do with pagan? nothing. Thousand of years ago they did not have electricity, so decorating ones house w/ thousands of lights is a brand new modern thing, absolutely nothing to do with pagan.
In summary, a combination of scriptually not judging anyone who chooses to observe a festival as long as for God's glory, the love aspect, o and it's very interesting, but the WT itself in the awake magazine, had an article about the "pagan" pinata being very popular in Mexico and that since nowadays it's lost it's origin meaning, it's an individual choice to do it or not and not to judge those who do. Funny it's okay for that but they say otherwise about Christmas.
But I won't do things that go against my conscience. I forgot what scripture but it says something to the effect of if it still bothers you or you feel it's wrong and do it, even if it's okay it's a sin because you do it under the impression it's wrong. I've been coming to my conclusions after much deep thought and research and meditating on it.
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EndofMysteries
To add to my last post........
My first holiday experience was this past halloween last month. I joined my girlfriends family in taking their nephew trick or treat. I wasn't dressed up or anything, they weren't either. I thought I was going to hate it and be bored. We were just escorting him because it's a kid thing, but I really enjoyed how friendly all the neighbors were and seeing how it's a way to connect w/ the neighborhood to meet them and get to know them. It felt like a fun, close community experience.
This will be my first Christmas upcoming. But watching movies, decorating, a big family dinner with what will be my new family, getting and giving gifts, I feel an emptiness and void in myself starting to get filled. It's not the holiday in itself but the closeness, family, traditions, fun, etc, that was lacking in my life.
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tootired2care
@Rattigan350 - I mean, how can Jehovah keep account of a person's celebrating a pagan holiday and then holds it against that person but yet allows a typhoon to destroy the Philipines? We, and what we do, just don't matter.
If you re-read my post I believe we are pretty much saying the same thing.
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Iown Mylife
The TRUTH is that people can and should do whatever they want to do without worrying about some bogus authority judging whether they are "good" or not.
My grandkid has told of her father and stepmother's arrangement for "gift exchange" every year, which takes place well out of town in a rented cabin that just happens to have a decorated Christmas tree in the living room. There they meet up with the stepmother's family, cook a big meal and unwrap presents. But they're not celebrating Christmas, oh my goodness, NO!
Hypocrite much?
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Jeffro
Stand for Pure Worship:
While I'm thankful to have never participated in such holidays,
That statement borders on pathological. A person with a healthy mind would not feel the need to be thankful for not voluntarily participating in any particular celebration. (This might be different if were talking about some ritual that requires drug use, violence, or some other objectionable treatment that might later be regretted.) They might be ambivalent about the celebration, or even opposed to the celebration. But thankful? If you don't want to participate in a voluntary celebration, then just don't. But it's just stupid to be so naive to (claim to) not understand that other people enjoy voluntarily celebrating or to be 'thankful' to have not voluntarily participated.
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Aunt Fancy
I was not a born in so I celebrated the holidays for 28 years and met my born in husband and I stopped celebrating them for 30 years! Holidays were always very special times of the year not what the JW's would like you to think. It was actually the hardest thing for me to give up and really robbed me of so much joy. We have been out since 7/2012 so we had a wonderful Christmas last year with my son, daughter in law and gradkids. This year is going to be even better because we aren't nervous about it. We have done birthdays, Halloweer, Thanksgiving and a few others.
I love it!! It brings so much joy and happiness to those you love. The WTBTS ruins all the fun in life. They have taken every possible way of having a good time and made it evil well, they are the ones who are evil! i am decorating the inside of the house this year and next year the outside will be added!! I can't wait.
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laverite
Aunt Fancy - good for you! I loved reading your post.
Looking back, the prohibition on holidays makes a lot of sense from a cult perspective (though not from a doctrinal perspective). I treasure the holidays now. I was born in so I never had them growing up. As an adult with children, I love Christmas so very much and my kids do as well. Wonderful family times and memories. I love Christmas so much that I keep a few Christmas decorations out all year long -- tasteful ones that don't scream Christmas without the larger Christmas context (and décor), but I know what they are and they give me a lot of joy to look at every day. Then when Christmas comes along, I decorate like crazy, and it helps those previously "hidden" treasures to just pop. Love it!
And, it always gives me a giggle when I hear JWs (and JW relatives) on facebook self righteously talk about not "celebrating" the holidays. Such hypocrites. Because they do, too, celebrate the holidays (without calling it that, and making a point of how they are not celebrating the holidays). So funny, yet so sad.