False Prophecy Part 3 With A Jehovah’s Witness Elder

by Watchtower-Free 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  anonymouz

  gma-tired2 reference to 1975.

  =

  1975 was the end. For Bethel that is. In spirit of the lie in the GB that went into power in 1976, from the 1975 GB membership surge with injected co-puppets that aided that vote. Thus by Jan1, 1976, the internal spiritual cancer of Bethel had metastasized, and soon the GB imbibed the whole ministry; (Rev8:10-11). In retrospect the final "man of lawlessness" body had indeed "lifted themselves over everyone". (2Thess2:3-4).

  The GB experiment has now utterly failed. And once it is all said and done, it will be the single greatest disaster in all JW history and it's "end" time of Bethel's point in time of the main error came in in 1975. (2Thess2:10-11) Making it all official with Bethel's ruination is all that is left to accomplish, the main goal of the GB center of control.

  Eventually the GB and it's concept will be exposed for what it is: a bad mistake. And worse, essentially not true as to Bible reference or divine mandate and authority, all in essence, a lie. And of course no lie will prosper when it is attaching itself to God Himself. Bethel really did end in 1975, now it just must become literal.
• 

  Faithful Witness

  Splash: You're right! I forgot about that one... every righteous move, must be recorded on a card and reported to men for their approval and recognition. This is PROOF that JW's are doing the work - just read the yearbook! They can prove they are the chosen by Christ, by the very magnitude of their efforts.

  I didn't even mention that it was this very question about 1975, that made our bible study conductor give up on us as bible students. We did not have to push nearly as hard to get him to agree to get an article we requested, that predicted 1975 and the end of the Armageddon. He was 77 years old, born-in JW, and obviously had fielded this question before. He agreed quickly, to come back with the requested article.

  Here is the punchline...

  He came back the following Wednesday, with a typewritten, transcribed copy of the article. It was so clearly a fake, we didn't even bother to read it. That night, he exposed himself for what he truly was... a co-conspirator in the spreading of lies. He was an active elder in 1975, and he knows full well what happened back then. He denied it had ever been predicted. We then confirmed that they are liars, from the top of the org, to the top of the congregations.

  I tend to believe that many below the level of elder, don't actually know much truth about the organization they serve. And yes they do, they serve an organization. They do not serve Jehovah God or Jesus Christ.

  1975 and their other false prophecies, are ambitious topics to tackle.

  Why put so much energy into past teachings, when their current ones are so malicious and obviously contradictory to the teachings of Christ?

  How about something current, like their field service reports, worshipping a body of men, the validity of the the organization's appointment at all, and of course the current issue of the Watchtower, warning them to obey inhumane instructions that are soon coming in 2014. As an elder, he may already know what these instructions will be. Does he have a limit? He should draw a line in the sand (the sand his religious beliefs are built upon), so he knows where he will stop...

  Will he sell it all and go live in a hole underground? Will he buy weapons and arm himself for the war against Satan's army? Will he drink poison and die for the organization, certain Jehovah will deliver him? What is he willing to force people to do, in the name of supporting the org and its instructions?
• 

  Island Man

  Get him to read Luke 21:8 in English Standard Version. (In that verse Jesus tells his followers not to go after those saying: "The time is at hand"). Then tell him C.T. Russel actually printed a book entitled "The Time is at Hand" and it had false end time predictions in it. Then ask him if you're supposed to ignore Jesus' warning at Luke 21:8 by alligning yourself to an organization started by those who claimed "The Time is at hand.". Ask him if Jesus would choose men who have made false predictions to serve as his faithful and discreet slave after warning his followers not to go after such ones.
• 

  Island Man

  Something else: Steer the conversation to Deuteronomy 18:21,22 and get him to go to the Reasoning Book section on False Prophets. Ask him what that section says about those 2 verses. He would find that those 2 verses aren't once quoted or cited in all that section on False Prophets! Ask him why the Watchtower would write a Section on False Prophets in the Reasoning Book and omit to mention the very pertinent Deuteronomy 18:21,22? They couldn't have just missed it because a portion of that bible chapter is quoted up to verse 20. The writer of the Reasoning Book was apparently afraid to touch those verses in light of Watchtower history of false predictions.
• 

  Cold Steel

  This is a fascinating exchange, but the Bible verse where Jesus said no man knows the time or the date was written, what? Two thousand years ago? That doesn't mean that no one knows today (though no one does). A person can say, I don't know when it will happen, but within ten years it will happen. Then it becomes a false prophecy, right? Especially when it adversely affects your adherents.

  What upsets me about the exchange is that this Witness is doing the same thing to his kids that the JWs in the early 70s were doing to their children...and themselves.

  The JW teacher is so determined that the Watchtower is NOT a false prophet that he can't get the points. What's the purpose of the Governing Body? To give spiritual meat to the household and to oversee the Master's holdings. How good of a job have they done? Well, they've led their followers into financial bondage and provided a morose environment for them. No one could fault them if they were constantly counseling caution and rejoicing when God gives them additional time. Instead, they whip everyone into a frenzy and then turn around and blame it on them! It's like a bunch of children.

  As CEOs, these guys are always watching the bottom line. They realize that there's no future in a future! So they have to constantly tell people there is no future so they will give up what they would ordinarily need if there was a future. The problem, of course, is that when the future comes along, the grasshoppers have nothing while the ants are living normal and productive lives. And many of the ants are religious. Eventually the honest JW has to ask himself, am I better off having listened to those I thought were God's servants, or am I worse off? Has the Governing Body helped establish God's kingdom, or have they set up a counterfeit, in which they have presumed authority they were never given? In the past, those who came in God's name came in power and authority. To be a faithful and wise servant, shouldn't one first be appointed? Shouldn't what they say come to pass?

  William Miller was the first in this entire movement to leave people in financial ruin and harnessed by false expectations. He left people on hilltops and rooftops to meet the coming Christ, and when it failed to happen, he said he had miscalculated. And that line of leadership has never changed and it's results have been depressingly the same all the way to the present. In fact, if you remove Armegeddon from the denomination's theology, it's nothing. Everything is centered on that one aspect of prophecy, and nothing more.

  .
• 

  Julia Orwell

  I ask JWs this: "Why doesn't the CD rom go back past the 70's? What don't they want you to see? Are they trying to hide something?" Got my hubby out of the cult.
• 

  Cold Steel

  Island Man: Steer the conversation to Deuteronomy 18:21,22 and get him to go to the Reasoning Book section on False Prophets.

  Although it's a good idea, if one looks carefully at what happened, the Governing Body never actually prophesied that the end would come by then. They implied it, but they always gave themselves a little wiggle room, or escape. It's there between the lines.

  “If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the “last days” in 1914, Jesus foretold: “This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.”-Matt. 24:34. Therefore*, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in highschool and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!

  Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15.”

  *For that reason

  By some deft and judicious editing, the Watchtower writer, whoever he is, manages to formulate the prediction, not as prophesy, but as reasoning. He also puts everything on the shoulders of Jesus. But the 1914 date is fiction. If not, then Jesus missed the mark, not the GB. After all, he said it! But if one reads Matthew 24, the GB isn't guilty of false prophecy, but bad exegesis. And while that's bad enough, it isn't the same as prophecy, which needs no explanations or apologies. A prophecy, after all, can stand on its own. That's not what's happening here.
• 

  Etude

  Watchtower-Free:

  It seems you were well prepared and sufficiently cunning to not piss him off and have him walk off. I think the conversation is a testament to a clear and logical approach that can persuade. I went into Bethel around February of 1974. In about or shortly after April of 1974, I attended the Gilead graduation at Sunny Side, Queens, NY. There, Fred Franz first stated, as I heard with my own ears, that the fulfillment of 6,000 years since Adam's creation would happen in 1975 and how appropriate it would be for the 1,000 years of Christ's reign to start (meaning after Armageddon). I didn't really care because I was at Bethel and didn't have to make life-changing decisions. Nevertheless, I didn't fail to notice what that meant. After that, I really didn't hear much about people selling their houses and giving up everything because Armageddon was about to come. Even after I did, the commentary between the brothers tended to blame the people who made those decisions rather than the organization for promoting. I was very much one with the Borg.
• 

  smiddy

  W.F. I am surprised he still wants to talk to you , maybe he is lonely , or maybe he really has doubts himself and is trying to excise them .

  You have done a damn good job in not being sidelined by efforts to distract you from your enquirys .

  One thing I would pursue is , why have the society got rid of the older publications from their CD-Rom ? ( if that is what they have really done )

  Have they removed older printed publications from their librarys at the KH ? If they have done so , why ? The obvious answer you will get from a jw is , it is old light , so it does not apply anymore , however if it is old light and doesnt apply anymore it must have been false/wrong teaching which they have probably been doing for generations , you could always bring in" overlapping generations "here .

  Comparing what they say now about their early history with what they actually said in print , WT , KM , Awake , Golden Age , Informant ,etc.etc., all matterial printed by the WTB&TS shows how dishonest and deceptive they are in writing their own history .So how or why would you trust them .

  smiddy
• 

  Vidiot

  Cold Steel - "...remove Armegeddon from the denomination's theology, it's nothing."

  Also one of the primary reasons why (despite what one or two here have suggested) the WTS is incapable of "mainstreaming".