nowwhat: ok the results are in!!! 40% sincere people postings 60% mean spirited atheists. i'm done posting on this site i can learn what i need to know from cedars jwsurvey
Arent you a ray of sunshine!
time to reboot jwn??? attn. tech49, formerlongtime elder, others.
by nowwhat? 57 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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OUTLAW
ok the results are in!!! 40% sincere people postings 60% mean spirited atheists.
i'm done posting on this site i can learn what i need to know from cedars jwsurvey
...........Good Luck with That!!..
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steve2
40% sincere people postings 60% mean spirited atheists.
Wow! Statistics rule, okay! Athiests are exposed as "mean-spirited". Brings to mind the cries of protest when mean-spirited grown-ups try to expose as false childhood stories such as Snow White, the tooth fairy and santa claus.
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MadGiant
I laugh (and pee a little) every time someone mention "bible principles".
Have you ever read the damn book."Thou shalt have no other gods before me" (Exodus 20:3)
"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"
(Exodus 22:18)
"He that sacrifice unto any god save the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed" (Exodus 22:20)
"He who is not with me is against me." (Matthew 12:30, Luke 11:23)
"he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death,
[and] all the congregation shall certainly stone him" (Leviticus 24:16).As a lesson to those who are fat and sloppy, God struck a town of gluttons with a vicious plague which made that last drumstick taste none-too-good and wiped out every living person (Numbers 11:33-34).
As a lesson to youngsters who fail to be seen and not heard, God sent a bear to maul to death a couple dozen children who had teased a bald man (2 Kings 2:23-24).
And during one particularly bad mood, God threw the lessons out the window and killed every man, woman, child and infant on the planet (except Noah's family) with a Great Flood (Genesis 7:23).
God didn't do all the slaughtering and mangling on his own. His chosen people, the Israelites, served as his assassins on more than one occasion. God told the Israelites to kill all the men and rape the women and children in the towns they invaded (Deuteronomy 20:13-16).
God told the Israelites to take any child who dared to disobey his parents to the town square and hurl stones at his body and head until the tot's corpse was lifeless (Deuteronomy 21:18-21).
Jesus approved of his Father's command that children who curse their parents are to be put to death (Matthew 15:3-4).
Jesus chastised the Pharisees for failing to kill those children who defied their parents' commands (Mark 7:9-13).
Jesus told us we are to live our lives in fear of God for God has the power not only to kill us, but to torture us forever in Hell (Luke 12:5).
Bible principles, isn't that an oxymoron?
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Hortensia
Exchanges like this always amuse me. It seems to me that the atheists are outnumbered, but they're loud and they don't back down. It's wonderful that there are so many debates on the forum, and amusing when they descend to name-calling. "Mean-spirited atheists." I don't suppose atheists are any more mean-spirited than believers.
There are some true intellectuals on this forum. I love to read what they share with us. I learn a lot from these debates. You should consider yourself lucky to be a member of a forum where freedom of speech actually exists! Freedom of speech means having sometimes to listen to stuff you don't want to hear. If you just want to have your ears tickled, go somewhere where your ideas are safe from being challenged. Otherwise, man up and wade into the debates with some honesty and willingness to learn.
Have you actually read the bible is a good question. I read it through several times, because we were told to do so back in the day, three chapters a day and you read the whole thing in a year. I did it for several years. Man, what an awful book. Clearly it reflects the lives and culture of the people who wrote it, and we have learned so much since then that I am amazed that people still follow that ancient book of folk tales.
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Band on the Run
Tec,
I should have added some reference materials. Your endless conversation with Cofty the other day annoyed me no end. It seems you feel you are so special that only you have truth b/c of your super secret and exclusive insights from the Holy Spirit that most rational people would consider a walk around the bend. There is an arrogance in that thread on your part that did not seem quite like you. In fact, I wondered if it were truly you or someone posing as you.
Cofty wins every time b/c he is rational. You are not.
After all these years on the forum with you, I have no clue what you believe except that God/Superman marked as you as better than others. I believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Countless millions of Christians believe in the Holy Spirit. Christians have been proclaiming the Holy Spirit as an active agent since the first generation of Christ's followers. It is rather sad that after years I don't have a clue whether you do. Besides touchy feely stuff, you don't discuss normal beliefs. I mean normal for you.
I can't hang out here forever. There does seem to be a concerted effort among th whatchamacllits to take over this site. One must belief as you do or one has no merit. I find this sick. Rationality is a good force.
When people post here, they tend to write movingly. Most of us are uncertain. We know the WT lied to us and lied boldly. Is it possible to still have belief? Well, I choose belief. Educated belief. Sophisticated belief. Aware that I may be deluded in my faith. It is a conscious choice. This is where the whatchamacallits fail. I know what Cofty believes. He is clear. Many others here are part of faith communities. To cry that there are too many atheists here shows you do not understand that Simon is the owner, not you. Also, it further shows that you have no stomach to make decent discussions.
Things were quiet for a while. Why, I do not know. Suddenly, post after post about atheist bad people ruining everyone's fun. We are believers how dare you not agree with us? It is totalitarian in scope. Is Simon to lock us in some room and administer detailed questionnaires concerning fath? Must FBI polygraph experts be summoned for your purity test.
You repeatedly fail at convincing others. It is not that Cofty is rude. He has much better arguments than you do. Yet I do know basic Christianity. C.S. Lewis could easily construct a comeback. So could Thomas Merton or Dan Berrigan.
The whatchamacallits started their own website many months ago. People were excluded unless they paid fealty to craziness. The people who post here already voted on what type of content they prefer. We voted for diversity and rationality. It may get chaotic and rude at times. There must be hundreds of thousands of wacko Christian personal experience sites. Why challenge the people here? We don't want your litmus test of whatchamacallitness. Am I overreacting? You bet. The WT was so bad that I will fight anyone who trie to impose their will on me.
Again, I often proclaim my belief here. One would need to very thick not to notice it. Cofty has never been rude to me. No atheist has bothered me. Neither has any agnostic. We agree to disagree. Why must you have a monolith of your belief? As I stated before, I respect the atheists. My intellect tends to agree with them. Respect garners respect. Perhaps I could more readily accept your faith, if you simply said this is what I believe without drama.
Am I perfect? No. But you claim exclusivity with God. I've been busy. The repartee with Cofty was too much to take. It is not normal behavior.
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tec
Okay, Band... one more go around. Have you realized yet that I wasn't mentioned in the title of this thread, or in this thread at all, until you brought me into it... CREATING the drama you say you don't want?
Tec,
Band...
I should have added some reference materials.Your endless conversation with Cofty the other day annoyed me no end.
Seems to have come to an end to me. But if it annoyed you so much, why read it in the first place? And why comment about it here, and not there?
It seems you feel you are so special that only you have truth b/c of your super secret and exclusive insights from the Holy Spirit that most rational people would consider a walk around the bend.
"Seems".... key word there.
I don't feel I am so special (no 'seems' about it), and I do not HAVE the truth. The truth is a person: Christ. I learn from the truth, and there is nothing stopping you from doing the same except for... you. I assume you consider yourself to be a rational person who would consider hearing from the Spirit as being a 'walk around the bend.' So perhaps THAT is why you do not?
There is an arrogance in that thread on your part that did not seem quite like you. In fact, I wondered if it were truly you or someone posing as you.
Again, maybe you should bring your concerns up on that thread then...?
Cofty wins every time b/c he is rational. You are not.
And you both think the Spirit being alive and speaking is a walk around the bend... something that those who belonged to Him also knew and proclaimed to be true, and that is right out of the bible... so you have that in common with cofty. If you're happy with that... then there you go. What do you care what I am?
After all these years on the forum with you, I have no clue what you believe except that God/Superman marked as you as better than others.
Fixed that for you.
So why not ask instead of judge?
I believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Countless millions of Christians believe in the Holy Spirit. Christians have been proclaiming the Holy Spirit as an active agent since the first generation of Christ's followers. It is rather sad that after years I don't have a clue whether you do. Besides touchy feely stuff, you don't discuss normal beliefs. I mean normal for you.
Christ... who IS the Spirit... is alive and speaks. I have been pretty clear about that. You just do not like it.
As for what millions of "Christians" believe... what does that matter?
Millians of "Christians" believe that anyone not a christian is going to hell. (But Christ does not teach this, and I have shared that... not only because there is no 'hell', but also because there are many others than Christians IN the Kingdom. Still, people find fault.)
Millions of "Christians" have fought wars in the name of Christ and God, spilled the blood of saints, executed and tortured those who were called heretics, because they did not believe the 'mainstream'. Millions of "christians" judge others, condemn others, hate their enemies, shun their own blood, do unspeakable things and claim that those things come from love. They learn those things from their teachers... but they are not learning those things from Christ. (My Lord teaches NO judging, no condemning, yes to forgiveness, mercy, love, faith and truth.)
Millions of Christians are also happy with their traditions and their doctrines and their beautiful churches and music and rites and icons, and their 'sophisticated faith'. Truth doesn't necessarily matter so much.
I want none of that. None of that means anything to me. I belong to Christ. I care about Truth (Christ), and follow Him and His teachings. He doesn't need 'pretty', and he had a thing or two to say about traditions of men.
I can't hang out here forever.
So don't. Who is making you?
There does seem to be a concerted effort among th whatchamacllits to take over this site. One must belief as you do or one has no merit. I find this sick. Rationality is a good force.
A - what is a whatchamacallit?
B - I assume you are referring to people who have faith in the Spirit, who is Christ, the Holy One of Israel, Jaheshua, the Son of God? I can assure you... none I know want to take over this forum, and I am certainly not trying to. And this accusation that some of you toss about 'one must believe as you do or one has no merit'... does not come from me.
When people post here, they tend to write movingly. Most of us are uncertain. We know the WT lied to us and lied boldly. Is it possible to still have belief? Well, I choose belief. Educated belief. Sophisticated belief.
Have it then. No one is stopping you. I could not care less about 'sophisticated' belief, whatever that is.
Aware that I may be deluded in my faith.
And that is why you are not a threat to any anti-theist, and that is why you are not 'attacked' as a threat. Your statement ... that you might be deluded in your faith... is the same to them as stating that you ARE deluded in your faith. That is the reality for them, that is what they hear from you.
It is a conscious choice. This is where the whatchamacallits fail.
Fail to say that Christ might not be real, and that our faith in Him might be without merit? I am thrilled to fail at such a thing. I also fail to understand how someone who is uncertain of their faith can knock someone else's faith?
I know what Cofty believes. He is clear.
He is pretty clear that he doesn't 'believe' in anything.
Many others here are part of faith communities. To cry that there are too many atheists here shows you do not understand that Simon is the owner, not you. Also, it further shows that you have no stomach to make decent discussions.
You are aware that this is not my thread, right? I never cried out that there are too many atheists here. What do I care how many atheists are here? I have NOTHING against atheists. They cannot all say the same about me. (but those would be the anti-theists, I think) I am quite aware of who the site owner here is. What does that have to do with anything?
Things were quiet for a while. Why, I do not know. Suddenly, post after post about atheist bad people ruining everyone's fun. We are believers how dare you not agree with us? It is totalitarian in scope. Is Simon to lock us in some room and administer detailed questionnaires concerning fath? Must FBI polygraph experts be summoned for your purity test.
Yeah... still not my thread, and still haven't cried out about atheists.
Funny how you are making this about me not wanting atheists around (a lie)... but it is actually you, and a few others, who think that anyone who has faith as I do, should not be around. Those fingers pointing back at you, perhaps?
You repeatedly fail at convincing others.
It is not in my power to convince others.
It is not that Cofty is rude. He has much better arguments than you do.
I am not surprised that you think so.
Yet I do know basic Christianity. C.S. Lewis could easily construct a comeback. So could Thomas Merton or Dan Berrigan.
Then why don't you? Construct a comeback for the things that some say about Christ and God? Instead of pointing out how I fail, why don't you succeed?
The whatchamacallits started their own website many months ago.
Aguest and I created a forum a little over a year ago, yes.
People were excluded unless they paid fealty to craziness.
No one was excluded, atheist or theist... but the forum is for non-religious christian spirituality, and not everyone is interested in such a thing.
The people who post here already voted on what type of content they prefer. We voted for diversity and rationality.
Unless it comes in the form of unapologetic faith, you mean? Faith in the Spirit. Worship in Spirit and Truth? That is a bit too diverse?
It may get chaotic and rude at times. There must be hundreds of thousands of wacko Christian personal experience sites. Why challenge the people here?
What kind of a question is that? Why do atheists challenge faith here? It is a discussion forum. I came here with faith... I have grown in that faith since being here. Its not like I just decided one day to go looking for a forum out of the blue. I've been here almost four years.
We don't want your litmus test of whatchamacallitness. Am I overreacting? You bet.
Good that you admit it.
The WT was so bad that I will fight anyone who trie to impose their will on me.
Band, I am not imposing anything on you. You came to me. You are engaging me. You are even trying to impose your will on me.
Again, I often proclaim my belief here. One would need to very thick not to notice it. Cofty has never been rude to me. No atheist has bothered me. Neither has any agnostic. We agree to disagree. Why must you have a monolith of your belief? As I stated before, I respect the atheists. My intellect tends to agree with them. Respect garners respect. Perhaps I could more readily accept your faith, if you simply said this is what I believe without drama.
I cannot attest to my faith WITHOUT people like YOU creating the drama. I cannot speak on a faith thread or any other thread without people like you creating the drama you then blame on me. I mean, here we are on a thread that I had no part in, and you had to give your little rant (again) about me. Just like you did the other day. You were wrong then, you are wrong still.
And if, after all these years, you don't know anything about my faith... you should perhaps not be so quick to judge it? Just something to ponder.
Am I perfect? No. But you claim exclusivity with God. I've been busy.
A, I have claimed no such thing. Ever. Never in my entire life have I ever claimed such a thing.
And you are too busy for what? God? Faith? Reading these posts?
I hear that from others too... too busy for these kinds of threads, but not too busy to rant about these kinds of threads.
The repartee with Cofty was too much to take. It is not normal behavior.
A, irony; b, has nothing to do with this thread.
I don't know what else to say to you, except that I wish you peace,
tammy
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Comatose
Good grief. I have to tell you there is nothing more annoying to me than dissecting a post line by line with responses. How can anyone take the time to do that. Just pick a point and respond. I don't read it, but even scrolling past it is hard! :-)
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OUTLAW
Good grief.
As opposed to Bad Grief?!..
I have to tell you there is nothing more annoying to me than dissecting a post line by line with responses.
How about 30 Live Chickens in your Bedroom?!..
How can anyone take the time to do that.
They like Chickens?..
Just pick a point and respond.
There was a Point?!..
I don't read it, but even scrolling past it is hard! :-)
You`ll get used to it..
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...OUTLAW