Itsy and Kate have good advice!!!
Smile and nod your head a lot and STFU!
Doc
We the rank and file are prophets
by Crazyguy 21 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Splash
Awake 6/8/1986 p.9 - JW's are prophets
"You will be interested to learn that God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God. In fact, they are known throughout the world as Jehovah's Witnesses."
Reasoning From the Scriptures (1989) p.133 - JW's are prophets
"If any individual claim to represent God but decline to use god's personal name, and make it a practice to express their own opinions on matters, are they measuring up to this important qualification of a true prophet?"
w91 9/1 p. 29 par. 20- JW's are prophets
Still, our efforts are never in vain. Why not? Because we are advertising Jehovah’s name and Kingdom. By our preaching and by our very presence, we are warning the wicked. (Ezekiel 33:33) ["And when it comes true—look! it must come true—they will also have to know that a prophet himself had proved to be in the midst of them."]
w98 7/15 p.12 Beware of a Lack of Faith par. 15 - JW's are prophets
"Paul started his warning with the provisional clause "if you people listen to his own voice." God spoke to his people through Moses and other prophets. Then, Jehovah spoke to them through his Son, Jesus Christ. (Hebrews 1:1, 2) Today, we have God’s complete inspired Word, the Holy Bible. We also have "the faithful and discreet slave," appointed by Jesus to provide spiritual "food at the proper time." (Matthew 24:45-47) Thus, God is still speaking."
w99 10/1 5 "For Everything There Is an Appointed Time" - The FDS are prophets
"For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets." (Amos 3:7) ... For that purpose God has authorized a "faithful and discreet slave" to provide his people with "their [spiritual] food at the proper time."w10 7/15 p. 11 par. 18 "What Sort of Persons Ought You to Be!" - JW's are prophets
"At the same time, Jehovah will honor his faithful servants by making it abundantly clear that they were, indeed, his representatives.—Read Ezekiel 2:5; 33:33."(Eze 2:5) And as for them, whether they will hear or will refrain—for they are a rebellious house—they will certainly know also that a prophet himself happened to be in the midst of them.
(Eze 33:33) And when it comes true—look! it must come true—they will also have to know that a prophet himself had proved to be in the midst of them."
w11 3/15 p. 30 par. 10 - Anointed are prophets
"Like the prophet of old, the Jeremiah class has been given an assignment from the Sovereign of the universe. God’s anointed servants are thus duly authorized to make pronouncements worldwide..."
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Crazyguy
Thanks splash the 86 awake is the one I was thinking of but the other stuff is good to. I plan on using the scriptures about making sure you do not lie and that god will judge ones that lie etc and making sure of all things. Then show the brothers this awake and the mast head on the awakes until 1995 and then say that I'm just making sure to not be miss stating anything so this is why I'm not out in service and missing meeting to stay home and do thurough bible study. Of course I will only say this if cornered and I will state it as politically corect as possible.
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DATA-DOG
What's your plan Bro? Do you NEED to see it for yourself? I did, so I understand. Depending on your goals, you need to be extremely diplomatic. If you get the wrong Eldumb, they will go into detective mode and look for ANYTHING to use against you. If you get the right Eldumb, your relationship will never be the same because you are a doubter/possible apostate. Keep in mind that you are doing this at a time when fear and paranoia are at an all time high. The END is closer than ever!!!
If you are interested: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/259288/1/Upcoming-KM-Why-we-are-not-False-Prophets
DD
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BluesBrother
There is more to that quote from 1986 Awake 8 June p9 that should really be set in context.
All True Christians ARE Prophets
The New American Bible correctly states: “Prophet means ‘one who speaks for another,’ especially for God. It does not necessarily mean that he predicts the future!” Pope John Paul II said: “The ‘prophetic office’ of the People of God must be consciously exercised as a true service of the Word.” But as we have seen, it is impossible for a Catholic to be a true prophet, or witness, for God’s Word, the Bible, without betraying the doctrine of the Catholic Church, based mainly on tradition.
In its final declaration, the World Catholic Federation for the Biblical Apostolate expressed the need for Bible education, particularly among the young and the poor, for inexpensive Bibles and Bible education literature, for Bible translations and Bible translators, and for full-time workers. It further stated that all Christians should preach and teach, live by the Bible, and “discern the signs of the times.”
You will be interested to learn that God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God. In fact, they are known throughout the world as Jehovah’s Witnesses. Out of love for God and his Word, they are carrying on a universal Bible educational work among old and young, rich and poor. They have hundreds of thousands of full-time voluntary workers, some of whom translate and print Bibles and Bible educational literature that is distributed inexpensively, or even free of charge. They are assisted by millions of part-time workers. Any of these will be happy to help you “discern the signs of the times” and embrace the wonderful hope contained in God’s Word, the Bible.So they do not claim in this passage to necessarily predict the future but they do insist as they have many times, that they "speak for God" .
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leaving_quietly
Just use the scripture used for the part in this past week's KM article on sisters wearing headcoverings. Any time they are conducting a bible study, they are considered prophets. The scripture uses the phrase "prays or prophecies". (1 Cor 11:5). If they view this as applying to conducting bible studies, then they view the bible study work as prophecying.
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caliber
The New American Bible correctly states: “Prophet means ‘one who speaks for another,’ especially for God. It does not necessarily mean that he predicts the future ~~~ 1986 Awake 8 June p9! ~~~ quoted above Bluesbrother
The scripture uses the phrase "prays or prophecies". (1 Cor 11:5)~~~~~.leaving_quietly
While a agree that the WT has tried to make predictions about the future , I think it is wise to see the context in which they use this word...one who speaks for another, (thoughts expressed in these two quotes above )
In other words find one of many other things to complain about !
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DS211
hooooooooly crap...marked. Ill check it out in the wt library cd
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Doug Mason
crazyguy,
It is my view that one strong reason JWs "hang in" is they fear the impact of shunning. These elders are no different, each has the same fear - plus this is the only place they can exert authority.
The Elder operates with the knowledge that the WT hierarchy is constantly monitoring them.
For an Elder to report back that they found no problem from a dissident would put that Elder into an invidious position. Never expect balanced impartiality - the Elder's self-interest is paramount.
Doug
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anonymouz
We need to use basic logic here, as Bethel has none. A prophet and an interpreter of propecy are not the same thing, they are separate things entirely. The only prophets are people who foretell future events before they occur from no previous prophecy. Most Bible prophets, if not all, understood almost nothing of the prophecy they recorded.
Like Daniel, who just went through the first temple desolation, was now foretelling another temple desolation, even before the next temple was rebuilt! No wonder he was exhausted!
But Daniel knew nothing of the detailed meaning of the prophecy.
As per 2Pet1:19-21, an interpretation that is accurate, must come from God. So an interpretation of accuracy initially must be opened by God, such as recognizing a nucleus of human world government (in the League of Nations as Rev13:11-15) is unique and indeed ominous if in fact Christ is the appointed world ruler to come. That means a conflict will occur as both complete kingdom.
So is the interpretation of Rev13:11-15 correct in world government formative manifestation as an "image" or nucleus of that kind of globalized world power?
People have to make their own decision.
At the churches Rev13:11-15 has many interpretations, none of which must offend their allegiance to the League, still maintained. With JWs, they have a similar agreement with the UN as UN NGO. And like the church interpreters not signing off on IBSA interpretations of Revelation 13, JWs do not reveal the UN 8th King as King North of the 3rd UN placement of 1990 at Daniel 11:31b either. (As Bethel too, made agreement in tangent with a UN worldwide manifestation and fulfillment of prophecy, like 1919 with Christendom cleric councils).
So Bethel or JWs cannot be prophets by logical default explained here, and are not valid interpreters either, for like their twin sister world government escorts of 1919, today's Bethel UN escort service has JWs concealing King North identity as if the USSR "places the [UN] disgusting thing", which is of course impossible and thus a falsehood now maintained as Bethel prophetic interpretive policy.
Thus distinguishing a prophet who spoke things he/she did not understand, and an interpreter who can make true or false explanations of prophecy is important to logically understand to easily disqualify post 1945 JWs at 1990 evidence as never prophet, but merely false interpreters.
JWs did expound the 2nd UN placement as prophecy of Rev17:8-11. But again, one has to make their own determination of it's validity in both those first two UN placements JWs explained as others covered it up with various false interpretations in relation to JWs view of their 1945 veracity.
But now what is a UN 1-2-3-4 continuum when we include Daniel 11:30-45 final two UN placements (1990; future) as 3rd and 4th renditions, with the JW expounded first two UN placements of 1919 and 1945, we no longer have a valid 1-2-3-4 continuum to implied Armageddon (Dan11:45), because in 1990 JWs went UN NGO, and could not explain Daniel 11:27-45 properly so as not to betray their UN allies by proper exposition of that 1990 post "cold war" (Dan11:29) 3rd UN placement of actual Daniel 11:30-31 intrigues at Bethel in UN collusion.
The Bethel self-incrimination in that prophecy, hence it's diversion, is fairly obvious in the prophecy in the UN NGO itself, not to mention the diversion of interpretation later, as church central clerics did the same thing in 1919 and 1945.
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So JWs are not prophets or valid interpreters, because even the Daniel 11:44, now delusion of "attack", "to fulfill next brothers", is based on USSR fiction. And that USSR fictional position in the prophecy is advanced too far into Daniel 11 as far as the overall 8th King globalization process. Thus as Daniel 11:42-43 obvious coming global debt intrigues ends in a national collective pawning to subservience as captured "King South" wealth and finances, by a globalized 8th King "King North" credit and finance system, JWs will think those intrigues are Daniel 11:44; prematurely.
And thus the internal UN operation at Bethel, obvious in it's allegiance (UN NGO) and interpretive diversions, can then implode Bethel financially in the same worldwide context of debt and investment meltdowns, and the 8th King can proceed with Daniel 11:42-45 to 4th UN placement as also full international government - and JWs will be sold a brilliant hoax "interpretive" "explanation" already in place for such use.
Now the UN 1-2-3-4 super-cycle since 1919 can then complete with no obstruction as to Bible prophecy, and place a fully functioning world government (Dan11:45; 8:25; 12:11) like a decade into that final cycle, with no potential JW problem, or aid, as JWs already aided the UN development to even get this far with no prophetic exposure, and misapplied prophecy to aid the JW delusions.
In a way, JWs are prophets now.
In fact the Bethel theology is so well engineered, JWs are now "self fulfilling prophets" as a purposeful interpretive deception is obviously at work in JWs in marked manner since 1990 and the USSR deposition which of course renders King North impossible as per Dan11:36 to fulfill in the USSR, so that error must be purposely maintained to position JWs psychologically at Daniel 11:44, which can be very useful later to finish off the JW organization as JWs actually expect that desolation in their "self fulfilling prophecy".
Only problem is it will not be Daniel 11:44, or the desolation JWs think is in action, and by the time they figure it out, of course it will be way too late, the 8th King will be pedal to the metal towards world government having just run over JWs as the latest road kill in that roughly ten year trip to 4th UN placement.
So yes, Bethel does have self-fulfilling prophets foretelling the JW future for the 8th King. And Bethel does have prophetic interpreters engineering JW theology to hoax JWs. And like 1919, it all has a clear tie in to UN related organizational operations at Bethel, signaled in the UN NGO. And in this unique case the "prophet" and the "interpreter" is the GB. In most cases prophet and interpreter are separate functions and entities.
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Of course that's my "interpretation", people have to make their own determinations. Bethel though, is a defunct visionary, as many do agree now.