Feb. 2014 WT , whats this all about???

by Crazyguy 28 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Phizzy

  In the past, notably in the "Insight" book article on "Messiah" the WT have given the impression that the Bible says that the Jews were expecting the Messiah at this time for a particular reason. A careful reading of the texts they use shows no such thing.

  The Jews were always, (and still do?), awaiting the Messiah.

  I can find no scriptural example of where they used Daniel to work out that the Messiah was due at the time Jesus appeared, and nor any secular proof that 1st Century Jews were any more "expectant" than at any other time in history.

  Perhaps the WT is becoming aware that their dodgy "scholarship" is easy to see through, and is being held up to derision on the Internet, perhaps, and it is a big perhaps, they are getting a little more careful about what they put in print.
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  blondie

  The WTS uses phrases many times to open the door to a change in a possible change in doctrine. They will refer back to it as proof of a progression.
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  carla

  marking
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  DS211

  Marked....yadda--(sorry guys) i LITERALLY farted while laughing at the image you posted....might have to check me trousers!
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  AnnOMaly

  In the past, notably in the "Insight" book article on "Messiah" the WT have given the impression that the Bible says that the Jews were expecting the Messiah at this time for a particular reason. A careful reading of the texts they use shows no such thing.

  Several times the WTS has quoted an old 19th century French Bible manual which stated that Daniel 9's '70 weeks' prophecy was the reason the 1st century Jews were expecting the Messiah at that time. This seems to be the source of their past assumption ... which they are now suggesting is incorrect. See hyperlinked thread above for more information.
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  BluesBrother

  Feb 2014 WT QFR

  "Could the first-century Jews have calculated the time of the Messiah’s arrival on the basis of the prophecy of the 70 weeks recorded atDaniel 9:24-27? While that possibility cannot be ruled out, it cannot be confirmed. The fact is that there were many conflicting interpretations of the 70 weeks in Jesus’ day, and none come close to our present understanding. ......................................................................................

  If the timing of the 70 weeks had been correctly understood in the first century C.E., one would think that the apostles and other first-century Christians would have referred to it as proof that the promised Messiah had arrived right on time in the person of Jesus Christ. However, there is no evidence that the earliest Christians did so.

  Another factor is worth noting. Gospel writers often pointed out that certain prophecies found in the Hebrew Scriptures were fulfilled in Jesus Christ. (Matt. 1:22, 23; 2:13-15; 4:13-16) Yet, not one of them connects Jesus’ appearance on earth with the prophecy of the 70 weeks."

  Aw 1971 12/8 p8 (one of many references)

  Using 455 B.C.E. as a starting point for counting the sixty-nine weeks of years (483 years), we find that a “messiah” or “anointed one” was scheduled to arrive in 29 C.E. Were the Jews expecting a “messiah” at that time? Did a “messiah” make his appearance then?
  Alluding to Daniel chapter 9, a well-known rabbi of the seventeenth century C.E., Manasseh ben Israel, stated: “There are some who would accept those 70 cycles of seven as saying that after their end the Messiah would come. . . . Indeed, all of the Jews who took up arms against the Romans at that time were of that opinion.” Jewish scholar Abba Hillel Silver observes: “The Messiah was expected around the second quarter of the first century C.E.” The Babylonian Talmud, in its Tractate Sanhedrin, folio 97a speaks of the “seven year cycle at the end of which the son of David [the Messiah] will come.” So the Jews were expecting, not just any “messiah,” but the Messiah, the “son of David,” to appear at the very time indicated in Daniel chapter 9.
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  Oubliette

  I think y'all are misreading this passage. To my mind it means that there is no conclusive evidence that the " first-century Jews" may or may not have been able to calculate "the time of the Messiah’s arrival" and arrive at "our present understanding."

  Translation: We (the GB/FDS/JWs) have the right understanding NOW, but we don't know if the actual Biblical Christians alive during the time Jesus was on earth fulfilling prophecy had the right understanding THEN.

  Re-translation: We are right. We are DEFINITELY right. We don't know if anyone else was ever right or not, but we are very, very certain that we are right.

  Final translation: Listen, Obey and Be Blessed!
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  pixel

  Good point Oubliette.

  But what is the point of this? Just to say the were wrong and we (they) are right?
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  anonymouz

  The lawless GB are demolishing the foundational teachings of JWs, between the lines, to follow suit to the now complete transformation of the whole JW collective ministry into an aggregate "superfine apostle" cloned worldwide from GB DNA into all JWs. (2Cor11:13-15).

  This is to climax in the total cessation of the JW ministry which is the spiritual desolation of JWs merely becoming literal, and it's closeness to initial activation is why the GB is now apexing thier various final blasphemies, like the GB=FDS abomination.

  They are very confident now JWs will follow them anywhere and accept anything as the GB Pied Pipers prepare to jump into the grand canyon with as many JWs as possible in tow. And in the near future, it will get far more literal as to what is really at work in the GB tenure. (2Thess2:3-4). Their last 20 years of stunning fruitage should tell people and JWs what is really operating at Bethel, as some have recognized the modern center of lawlessness diverting the JW ministry into ruin.
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  Dismissing servant

  "If the timing of the 70 weeks had been correctly understood in the first century C.E., one would think that the apostles and other first-century Christians would have referred to it as proof that the promised Messiah had arrived right on time in the person of Jesus Christ. However, there is no evidence that the earliest Christians did so.

  Another factor is worth noting. Gospel writers often pointed out that certain prophecies found in the Hebrew Scriptures were fulfilled in Jesus Christ. (Matt. 1:22, 23; 2:13-15; 4:13-16) Yet, not one of them connects Jesus’ appearance on earth with the prophecy of the 70 weeks."

  Aw 1971 12/8 p8 (one of many references)"

  So..God gave the Jewish people a profecy (trough Daniel) about when the Messiah should arrive/be born.......but everyone failed to understand that prophecy......hmmm, that's a bit tricky......a omniscient and omnipotent God should be able to do better

  Not even the gospel wrtires seemed to know about it and............not even Jesus......he didn't say anything about it.........why on earth didn't he help some more jews understand that he was the Messiah? Was he afraid that they wouldn't crucify him then?

  By the way...the prophecy about Christ's return was a fiasco aswell.......the WTS did not understand that 1914 was the year until the begining of the 1930's. Old YHWH has some communication problems!