If Satan is ruling, could he be trying to make people moral?

by EndofMysteries 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    A few things that don't fully add up in the bible seem to present an interesting possibility......

    Many comment on how in the old testament God at times seems so different from the new testament, and on a rampage all the time.

    Before Stephen was martyed, he said for the 40 years wandering in the wilderness they were actually following Moloch?

    Or in Exodus, God told Moses he was sending an angel to lead them and they better obey him fully because the angel would be unforgiving if they didn't follow his every word.

    Then in the new testament we have many scriptures about the one opposing God making himself to appear to be God and sitting in the throne of God. In revelation it hints that this one is so convincing the whole world worships him because of how powerful he is and he can have any killed he wants.

    In Ezekiel when talking about the ruler of Tyre, that many attribute to Satan, that he profaned his own santuaries, etc, what would those have been?

    Then when Jesus is on Earth, he says the whole world is given to him and he offers him control of the world if he worships him.

    Was it the apostle paul who said to check the 'inspired utterances' to make sure they originate with God?

    In Isaiah, in the very beginning it seems to be God, of Jesus quality, saying he hates their sacrifices and festivals, he wants mercy and justice. (as if he didn't command those things)

    In Jeremiah he confronts the Israelites on worshipping the goddess of heaven, who them reply they make the sacrifical cakes to her because if they don't, then all calamity befalls them.

    It almost makes me wonder, if Satan was given control of the whole world and in a sense allowed to show himself to be God, would he just want violence and nonstop problems or would he have been saying he can rule and be a great God or better God then the true one, and so tried and has been trying to shape and mold people w/ laws and stuff into being good, and would get frustrated when it was failing, so tried punishments to get them in line and scare them into behaving? It would also answer WHY is God allowing so much bad to happen. In the scriptures it has shown there are set periods of time for things, even the time of the gentiles.

    Anyway that's all the tip of the iceberg and that possibility can be completely wrong. But there are many things in the scriptures that show other possibilities and explanations for things. I think everybody who has dismissed the scriptures are based solely upon the understanding that has been presented to all of christianity and when seeing things that don't add up, just dismiss it as it must be wrong, but perhaps there are answers and much different pictures being painted that have no really come to light yet.

  • bohm
    bohm

    I think everybody who has dismissed the scriptures are based solely upon the understanding that has been presented to all of christianity and when seeing things that don't add up, just dismiss it as it must be wrong, but perhaps there are answers and much different pictures being painted that have no really come to light yet.

    Well, that could be said in favor of any false idea.

  • yadda yadda 2
  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    bohm - not neccessarily, because I'm not saying that there 'could' be stuff nobody has seen yet, but there is in your face scriptures that show our understanding of the old testament isn't all there. Is God an angel? Gen 48:15, 16 call him that. Can God almightly 'inherit' anything? What is the definition of 'inherit'? Yet if you read Deut 32:8, 9 it seems to be saying that Yahwah 'inherited' Israel, as if it was given to him to rule and other nations to others? Daniel 10:12 and 13 support that possibility, that there is an angel ruler of Persia and Michael is the prince of Israel and both are at war with eachother. Or in Ps 82 when it seems Yahweh is 'in the council of the divine' and appears to be saying the other gods are not doing a good job ruling their people.

    Taking all of those things combined and more, it's obvious there is more to the bible and the story then merely God almightly was the only one dealing w/ Israel and Satan is just merely opposing God and trying to make all humans evil.

  • adamah
    adamah

    EOM said- A few things that don't fully add up in the bible seem to present an interesting possibility......

    Many comment on how in the old testament God at times seems so different from the new testament, and on a rampage all the time.

    Before Stephen was martyed, he said for the 40 years wandering in the wilderness they were actually following Moloch?

    Or in Exodus, God told Moses he was sending an angel to lead them and they better obey him fully because the angel would be unforgiving if they didn't follow his every word.

    Then in the new testament we have many scriptures about the one opposing God making himself to appear to be God and sitting in the throne of God. In revelation it hints that this one is so convincing the whole world worships him because of how powerful he is and he can have any killed he wants.

    In Ezekiel when talking about the ruler of Tyre, that many attribute to Satan, that he profaned his own santuaries, etc, what would those have been?

    Then when Jesus is on Earth, he says the whole world is given to him and he offers him control of the world if he worships him.

    Was it the apostle paul who said to check the 'inspired utterances' to make sure they originate with God?

    In Isaiah, in the very beginning it seems to be God, of Jesus quality, saying he hates their sacrifices and festivals, he wants mercy and justice. (as if he didn't command those things)

    In Jeremiah he confronts the Israelites on worshipping the goddess of heaven, who them reply they make the sacrifical cakes to her because if they don't, then all calamity befalls them.

    It almost makes me wonder, if Satan was given control of the whole world and in a sense allowed to show himself to be God, would he just want violence and nonstop problems or would he have been saying he can rule and be a great God or better God then the true one, and so tried and has been trying to shape and mold people w/ laws and stuff into being good, and would get frustrated when it was failing, so tried punishments to get them in line and scare them into behaving? It would also answer WHY is God allowing so much bad to happen. In the scriptures it has shown there are set periods of time for things, even the time of the gentiles.

    Anyway that's all the tip of the iceberg and that possibility can be completely wrong. But there are many things in the scriptures that show other possibilities and explanations for things. I think everybody who has dismissed the scriptures are based solely upon the understanding that has been presented to all of christianity and when seeing things that don't add up, just dismiss it as it must be wrong, but perhaps there are answers and much different pictures being painted that have no really come to light yet.

    OR, you can go with Occam's razor and the rational skeptical approach, and demand to see proof of things existing BEFORE you believe in them!

    Ask to see even the slightest shred of evidence to indicate that Satan, his legions of demons, God(s), angels, etc etc exist.

    There ya' go, I just put an end to the mystery for ya'!

    Adam

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    adamah - In which case one must look at actual bible prophecies that were made and if we are seeing them really fullfilled or not. True, many may be hard to verify as to when they were made/written to when they were fullfilled. However, there are some super specific ones which have happened, THIS century, which even the WT has ignored, and can't be just coincidence.......

    How many ancient civilizations from 2,000 years ago still exist after being wiped out? What are the chances of the ancient egyptians still being around, not integrated into society and given control of their land again? Or of the mayans or aztecs returning?

    The bible prophesied that Israel would be scattered throughout the Earth, they would not ever find peace, and at some point in the future, they would be gathered back to their land again.

    In 70AD jerusalem destroyed exactly like Jesus said, in that generation, and the old testament description of what would happen as well as Jesus details were exactly as said. Now if that was it, one might argue that was put in the scriptures at a later point in time. But that prophecy also went on to say they would be gathered back, and they would STILL not be serving God during that time.

    What are the changes for almost 2,000 years the jews weren't intigrated into the lands and peoples they went to, they remained seperate, and after WW2, they are put back into Israel and given control of Jerusalem?

    The chances of them still exisiting and having their culture when civilzations and cultures that were around much longer after are not only gone but even their knowledge and everything as well, the Jews not only survived almost 2,000 years as outcasts in every country they lived but then after so long a time get it back as well.

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    Stop trying to make a bronze age myth fit the real world, no offence but the thread title is embarassing.....

    I am sure you are going through a struggle, a real inner war, making myth fit truth by doing Watchtower gymnastics. Instead of pondering the mythical what if's why not learn the actual WHAT ARE's and then you know you can discount anything that contradicts the known reality.

    Surely that is more sensible than battling with yourself over questions that can't EVER be answered and need to be dissected and considered if true first.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    Why would anyone work so hard, and pay such a high price, to liberate mankind from slavery only to create never-ending problems for such people? I understand why joke-hova would create problems, after enticement doesn't work (who can be enticed into slavery) and punishment is needed. That scumbag joke-hova can only use malediction, of course blaming Satan, to coerce obedience. And use scare tactics so no one even dares question whether it is joke-hova causing these problems lest they burn forever.

    Plus, inventing jesus to "save" us from these problems that joke-hova is causing. This is extortion. Cause the problems, create a fake "solution", use that "solution" to get the enslavement it wanted and that Satan tried so hard to liberate us from. And create fake "morals" that are about as genuine as our toilet paper currency. Since when is homosexuality and promiscuity inherently immoral, yet torturing others, slavery, and murdering whole peoples because they do not worship your god, is inherently moral? Or when is freedom inherently immoral?

  • J. Hofer
    J. Hofer

    it's a nice thought experiment. of course all of this is fiction, but in that setting, sure, would be possible. it would also be possible that satan actually IS way better than god and the bible is just some twisted godly goebbels propaganda. actually almost anything is possible in fiction.

  • flipper
    flipper

    Satan's not ruling, don't worry about it. " Satan " is an illusion , an unreality created by religionists to control people through fear. We need to be more in fear of the illuminati or huge corporates who run the United States government and it's president. If you want to find an imaginary Satan- just look at the 1 % global wealthy elite- they've got us by the balls my friend. And they are immoral in doing it using fear and control of the economy- worry about them, not Satan

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