IT'S THE MOST WONDERFUL TIME OF THE YEAR!!!

by DATA-DOG 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

DATA-DOG

Just getting a jump on the holiday season!! I figure that I will post this every year for discussion. These were my observations when learning TTATT. I made the mistake of leaving this lying around the house once. ( sneaky, sneaky...)

The Star .

I literally did a verse by verse breakdown of Matthew and Luke’s accounts. I used the NWT and the Emphatic Diaglott. What is interesting to me is that if you go on-line and use the " Good Land " brochure maps, you can calculate the distances from the cities mentioned. Also, this is one of those accounts where you have to read both Matthew and Luke to get the entire story straight.

Joseph, Mary and Jesus did not flee to Egypt until " after " the Magians visited and presented the gifts. ( Matthew 2:11-15 ) Then in Luke we get more info for establishing a timeline of the events. Jesus is born in Bethlehem, 8 days later he is circumcised. Then sometime after 40 days from the birth of jesus, Mary, by law, has to go to the Temple to have sacrifices made and do the purification procedures, by law.

This is important because they are still poor at this point, only being able to offer up 2 pigeons or turtledoves. So the actual written evidence we have would seems to indicate that they had not been given any of the " gifts " yet. We cannot imagine two people as faithful as Joseph and Mary, offering a skimpy sacrifice to save money when they have been chosen to raise Gods son. Next after everything was taken care of " according to the law " they went back to their hometown of Nazareth. Luke 2:39

If we look at both accounts, and add up the amount of time it would take from Jesus birth to arriving in Nazareth at a "house", there is no reason to believe that Jesus was 2 or 3 years old before the Astrologers, Astronomers, Wise-men, Magians, presented the gifts. Joseph, Mary and Jesus could have taken it easy at an Inn or at someone’s house for a Month or two and then went to Nazareth, we just dont know. Whatever the case the Magians could have been led to the " house " and presented the gifts before Jesus even reached the age of 1 year. Especially when we know that the family did not go to Egypt until after they received the gifts, and they remained there until after Herod died. I don’t think they waited around a couple of years and then fled to Egypt.

Things did not happen instantly like they do today either. So after Herod met with the Magians the second time, secretly, and told them to find the child, some time had to pass. Also, Herod was the one doing all the deceiving at this point. So if the Magians were not far from Nazareth, they were in Jerusalem about 68 miles away, they could have found Jesus anytime after the Families trip to Jerusalem. They could have found Jesus in Nazareth in under 2 months including travel time for everyone involved. That would make sense because Jesus is described in both accounts as an " infant " in Greek. Even when some translations say " child ", the Greek word is the same, and it is infant.

So from what I have found, there is no reason to teach definitively that the Magians were led by Satan or were working for Herod. We know Herod was wicked and tried to cover the bases by having all children 2 and under killed. We also know that the Magians did exactly what they claimed to have come for, to honor Jesus. Here is what I have found, sorry to be so long-winded about it.

The Bible does not say:

1. Jesus was 2 years or older when the Magians found him.
2. The Magians were working with Herod.
3. Jesus was not an infant when found.
4. The " star " was from Satan.

The Bible does say:

1. Jesus was born in Bethlehem
2. Herod wanted to kill Jesus, and lied to the Magians.
3. The Magians kept thier word about honoring Jesus
4. The Magians followed Gods direction and did not follow Herod's.
5. The Magians were led to Jerusalem and to a house,( probably Nazareth) by a " star ".
6. Joseph followed Gods direction and fled to Egypt after the Magians visited and offered their gifts to Jesus.

So Joseph and Mary lived in Nazareth, traveled to Bethlehem where Jesus was born, then went to the temple, then back to Nazareth, then fled to Egypt, then came back to Nazareth! That’s a crazy trip, but it was necessary. So do you think I am missing anything, or adding anything that should not be there? It seems dogmatic to say we have proof that Satan led the Astrologers, and then to print it as truth. Add to it the fact that " apostasy " is now defined as " Deliberately spreading teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah’s Witnesses ", according to the Elders book. I think the whole story of how awesome Jesus birth was has been downgraded. It is okay to realize the importance of this event, and it is irresponsible and dishonest to teach anything that Gods word does not teach.

I wrote this a couple of years ago. Any thoughts or comments from faders or apologists?

DD
KateWild

Good one, so really the bible says that the astrologers were gguided by God, not Satan. Interesting. Thanks DD, Sam xx
Aroq

This is great! I think that your digilance in finding out what the Bible says is something we all should be doing. We need to fact check what is told to us. The Bible is the ONLY truth in which we can rely on, not what men say.
tornapart

I was thinking about this the other day too DD. I have come to the conclusion that God led the Magians to Jesus too. Obviously Mary and Joseph were dirt poor and even though Jesus didn't put any store on riches in later life, the gifts that were given to him as an infant would have helped the family enormously in bringing him up. The bible also tells us that he had his own house in Capernaum, down by the lake shore. Even though it also says he had nowhere to lay his head, I guess this meant while he was travelling around. He had a fine garment that even the Romans fought over once they had executed him. Also he had money to give to the poor. His best friends Lazarus, Mary and Martha also were quite well off (going by the perfume Mary put on his feet).
Pallbearer

The "star" was definitely of Satanic origin. A little known fact is that it was Satan himself. Yes, the light in the sky that the Magi observed was the glow that all angels emit. Consider the angels that visited the shepards in the field the night Jesus was born. They emitted much light. The Magi saw the "star" (Satan) from a distance, and being that its light was up in the sky, then naturally it would look the same as any regular star.

From as far back as Genesis 3:15, Satan is doomed to destruction. Satan knew that the child Jesus is the one through whom his destruction will come. So Satan had every reason for wanting Jesus dead, and the earlier the better. And so Satan appeared as a "star" to the Magi, in order to lure them into Jerusalem. Once in Jerusalem it was a cinch that Herod would learn of the Magi's visit, and it was also a cinch that Herod would never tolerate a rival to his throne. And so the plot that Satan hatched in order to have Jesus murdered when but a child was right on track, and had God himself not intervened Satan would have succeeded in Jesus being put to death ahead of time. Yes, in order for Jesus' death to serve as a "ransom" he had to become a full-grown man and willingly sacrifice himself. So it can easily be seen why Satan wanted Jesus dead when but a child. Had he succeeded he would have thwarted God's purpose and rendered Genesis 3:15 meaningless.

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EndofMysteries

I have another theory on the magians finding Jesus by the star.......

In the bible itself, it says the sun/moon/stars/etc were also for signs and times.

When they said they saw the star and knew he was born, could that also imply that perhaps his birth was foretold for a certain time / constellation / etc?

The bible says there is 'appointed times' for everything.

You need to really keep your eyes open by throughout the scriptures from old testament to new testament you can find clues on that.
Bella15

@ DATA-DOG ... excellent search of the scriptures.

Following is something I read a couple of days ago. Reminded me of the Watchtower Corporation ...

"The bearing of false testimony is strictly prohibited by God, no matter how innovative we become! Any understanding of what God was saying to His children is greatly enhanced by a clear understanding of what it means to tell a lie. Bearing false testimony also carries with it the basic idea of fabrication, which, simply put, means to make something up. Exaggeration fits right in with God’s prohibition because any effort to stretch the truth is, in and of itself, a fabrication. When God said, “You shall not bear false witness” (Exodus 20:16), He was definitively pointing to the heart of man. Not even a person’s creativity with the truth is acceptable to God."
Pallbearer

Hey DATA-DOG,

Having read your opening post, I see that you are burdened with some mistaken impressions.

#1) You have assumed that Joseph, Mary and Jesus went back to Nazareth directly after they had completed their business at the Temple (done everything the Law required). You assume that Luke 2:39 supports that conclusion.

#2) You have assumed that the "house" in which the Family lived when the Magi found them was in the town of Nazareth.

In regards to #1: You are failing to take into account that Luke leaves out some of the story that Matthew includes, just as Matthew leaves out some of the story that Luke includes. The verse you reference at Luke 2:39 doesn't represent a full picture of where the Family went after they completed their business at the Temple and eventually wound up back in Nazareth. Yes, in that verse Luke left out the part in which Matthew described their sojourn into Egypt. So you are quite mistaken in thinking that the Family returned to Nazareth immediately after they finished their business at the Temple. The fact is they remained in Bethlehem for a while. And they were still in Bethlehem when the Magi came to Jerusalem inquiring about the one born that was destined to become the king of the Jews. After the Magi had left, Joseph was told to flee into Egypt because Herod was going to kill Jesus. Joseph took his family and went to Egypt, and then after Herod had died he was told to be on his way back to the land of Israel. Joseph did as he was instructed, and he went to the town of Nazareth - the same town where he and Mary lived before going to Bethlehem in order to be registered. So these are the facts with regards to their line of travel: They first lived in Nazareth. Then they went to Bethlehem to be registered. Mary gave birth to Jesus while there, in a stable, and they continued to live in Bethlehem for a time. While living in Bethlehem the Magi came. After the Magi left, they themselves left Bethlehem and went to Egypt. After Herod died they returned to Nazareth.

In regards to #2: The "house" in which the Family lived when the Magi found them was in Bethlehem, not Nazareth. Matthew 2:8 says that Herod sent the Magi to Bethlehem, not to Nazareth. The Magi didn't see the "star" sitting above a house in Nazareth. No, it was sitting above a house in Bethlehem.

According to your way of thinking: Joseph and Mary went from Nazareth to Bethlehem, then back to Nazareth. Then, after seeing the Magi, they left Nazareth again and went to Egypt, and then back to Nazareth again after Herod died.

But the correct way of thinking is like this: Joseph and Mary went from Nazareth to Bethlehem. Then, after seeing the Magi, they left Bethlehem and went to Egypt, and after Herod died they went back to their point of origin, namely Nazareth.

It's obvious that you are in need of getting important details straight in your mind, DATA-DOG.

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DATA-DOG

Bumping for X-MAS!!!! 😁

DD
sowhatnow

wow, thats right, after having the SON OF GOD, as a virgin untouched by a man, mary was considered unclean. go figure

IT'S THE MOST WONDERFUL TIME OF THE YEAR!!!

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