In the good old USA many have guns. And several I know have handguns. For self protection.
Guns
by Brother Mike 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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blondie
weapons = employment = lose privileges
weapons = self-defense? not allowed (WTS said apostles carried sword by not for protection from men)
weapons = for hunting is fine unless some in the congregation judge that you are doing it for sport rather than for food
Even for food, if jws don't more time hunting/fishing and neglecting preaching ---- will be talked to by the elders
*** w90 5/15 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***
▪ Is it appropriate for a Christian to go hunting or fishing?
The varied reactions to hunting often involve deep feelings. So it is best for Christians to strive to understand and apply Jehovah God’s thinking on the matter as found in the Bible.
God gave mankind dominion over both “wild” and “domestic” animals. At first, humans did not have the Creator’s permission, nor perhaps any physical need, to kill animals for food. (Genesis 1:24, 29, 30) Only after the Flood did God give mankind the right to eat animal flesh that was properly drained of “its soul—its blood.” (Genesis 9:3, 4) That could be meat from either domestic or wild animals.
The Israelites raised animals, such as sheep and cattle, that could be slaughtered for food when they craved meat. They also hunted and fished to obtain food. (Deuteronomy 12:20-24; 14:4-20) This harmonizes with God’s figurative saying that he would ‘send many fishers to fish for his people and many hunters to hunt for them.’ (Jeremiah 16:16) Later, Jesus included fishermen among his apostles and directed actual fishing operations.—Matthew 4:18-22; 17:27; Luke 5:2-6; John 21:4-7.
When the aged patriarch Isaac asked for a tasty meat dish, his son Jacob was willing to kill two young goats to make a dish for him. Esau, though, hunted a wild animal to get venison for his father. Note that although meat from domestic animals was available, Isaac asked for meat from a game animal. Note, too, that both sons killed animals that would be food, not for themselves, but for someone else.—Genesis 27:1-19.
Animals might be killed for reasons other than their meat. Their skins could be made into clothing. (2 Kings 1:8; Mark 1:6; Hebrews 11:37) Protective coverings and utensils were also made from animal hides, even of animals dietarily unclean and that Israelites did not eat.—Exodus 39:33, 34; Numbers 24:7; Judges 4:19; Psalm 56:8.
God’s requirement that the blood of slain animals be poured out should remind hunters that animal life is from him and so ought to be treated respectfully, not wantonly. (Leviticus 17:13) Nimrod evidently slaughtered animals and probably boasted about his hunting skill, the size or number of his kills, or the trophies that might have been made from them. He was “a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah.”—Genesis 10:9.
Such a thrill over hunting or killing animals, or over reeling in fish, could develop in a Christian. Many a hunter or fisherman who has scrutinized his heart has discovered that he was infected with the ‘joy of the kill.’ Such excitement goes hand in hand with wanton disregard for animal life. So while it is not wrong to hunt or fish (when the kill or catch will be used by someone for food or another fitting purpose), it would be improper to do so if a Christian had a spirit reminiscent of Nimrod. But there are dangers besides getting a thrill out of the chase, the kill, or a trophy.
The Watchtower of July 15, 1983, discussed why true Christians do not carry or keep guns for use against humans or protection from them. (Pages 23-6) Meditating on that counsel has led some Witnesses to reevaluate having even hunting guns. Not a few have chosen to get rid of their guns altogetheror to avoid having them on display and readily accessible. These Christians thus would not give the impression of taking pride in weapons or trusting in them. Furthermore, not even having hunting guns, or not having them easily accessible, can avert tragedy. The deadly weapons could not then come into the hands of children who might accidentally hurt or kill someone, nor would guns be at hand if someone was extremely frightened or depressed.—Compare Proverbs 22:3.
Some Christians may like the flavor of certain game or fish, and the most practical way to obtain such food is by hunting or fishing. Others enjoy the air and exercise linked with hunting in the woods, or find that quiet hours of fishing are relaxing. The Bible does not speak against this, so there is no need to judge others as to whether they enjoy such things or not. And the example of Isaac and his sons shows that there is no need to make an issue of who will eat the game or fish.—Matthew 7:1-5; Romans 14:4.
The apostle Peter was evidently quite attached to fishing. With some fish lying nearby, the resurrected Jesus helped him to analyze his own feelings about fish or the fishing business. Jesus asked: “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?”—John 21:1-3, 9-15; see The Watchtower, November 1, 1988, page 31.
Similarly, a Christian who in good conscience chooses to go hunting or fishing should have his priorities in order. For example, if a hunting or fishing season was to open at a time when congregation meetings were scheduled, what would he do? Or does his conversation show that he takes pride in his prowess at hunting or fishing? How fine it is if a mature Christian who, on occasion, chooses to hunt or fish can say with conviction: “Yes, Lord, you know I have affection for you [more than for these pursuits].”—John 21:16.
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wearewatchingyouman
*** w83 7/15 p. 25 pars. 14-16 "Seek Peace and Pursue It" ***Would it be fitting for the Christian to possess firearms for the purpose of hunting animals for food? Since the Flood, God has permitted the killing of animals for food, though the blood must be poured out on the ground, not eaten. (Genesis 9:3, 4; Deuteronomy 12:23-25) When allowed by local law, some Witnesses keep guns for protection against wild animals or for shooting game. (Matthew 22:21) To them this may be an important or practical source of food. But never should anyone think that Jehovah would approve of taking animal life for sport, for the thrill of killing—as has been the way with ancient and modern "Nimrods." Since "the soul of the flesh is in the blood," this is precious in Jehovah’s sight.—Leviticus 17:11, 14.
If a sizable number of Witnesses in a congregation should be disturbed in that someone is hunting animals merely for sport, and not for obtaining food, he might not be in position to receive special service privileges, because of his offensive reputation.—1 Timothy 3:2.
It is similar if one of Jehovah’s Witnesses insists on carrying or having firearms for protection against humans, or on learning the martial arts. The spiritual elders should take immediate steps to counsel and help him to remedy the situation. (Micah 4:3) Anyone who thus continues to carry personal arms or otherwise equips himself to become "a smiter" would cease to qualify for special privileges in the congregation.—1 Timothy 3:2, 3.
LMAO!!!! I'm going to have to share this little gem with my pops elder! More extra biblical BS from the FDS.
Luke 11:
When a strong, well-armed man guards his palace, his belongings remain secure. 22 But when someone stronger than he is comes against him and conquers him, that man takes away all his weapons in which he was trusting, and he divides up the things he took from him. 23 Whoever is not on my side is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.+
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3rdgen
There are a lot of bros who have guns for hunting but some who have protection wepons get heat and are not considered "exemplary" so are not appointed as servants. In a local cong. few years back a beloved JW family (who I knew and loved) with identical twin sons in their late teens suffered a horrific tragidy. The boys were in their room goofing off with a family gun. One twin accidently killed the other. It was all over the news. So VERY sad. The incident has probably has caused the elders to clamp down on gun owners.
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AlphaMan
In my area.....guns for hunting or self-protection was looked gown upon, but I've been out since 95' so maybe the JW's have loosened up some on the guns.
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blondie
I live in a state where hunting is big business for the state. Hunting is good....especially having people come here to hunt, stay in hotels, buy food, ammo. Many brothers hunt...elders are a big part of it. The COs learn not to schedule a CO visit during the deer hunting season. Or a circuit assembly. I have never seen anyone lose privileges. But then I don't live in a country presently involved in a war on its soil. People don't usually carry hunting rifles for personal protection. If you don't live in a hunting culture, it is more likely jws will look down on it.
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rmt1
How different Jehovah's people are! When I was pioneering a fellow pioneer regaled me to the glorious coolheadedness and nearly worldly calm with which his second-generation elder father, apparently doing the only proper thing that one can do when a stray female cat has left some mewling presents that you do not personally want, in his loving kindness took each kitten one by one, held it up in the air at arms length, and with the most profound respect for Jehovah's creation, aimed a 12 gauge along that arm, carefully, and tenderly blew its head off. This feat of strength and daring was to me quite different from the stories I would hear of the other elders who went to the Rockies and took down bear and large game, so as to eat it.
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mrquik
I grew up in upstate NY congregations. Many of us had guns growing up. No one made an issue of it.
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Cold Steel
The JWs believe the Bible is a handbook. It's not. Under the law of Moses, self defense was looked upon as completely allowable. There were certain restrictions, such if an intruder entered your home at night, the homeowner could assume the intruder was willing to take a life if discovered. If caught during the day, however, killing him would be manslaughter unless some disability on the part of the homeowner was a mitigating factor. An old man could probably mitigate taking the life of a younger and much stronger man.
The New Testament was primarily written to the churches and religious leaders. Self defense can certainly be shown to be allowable in the sense of, if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Back then, your cloak was essential to your survival against the elements, and most people only had one, while the wealthy had several. Still, there's no specific prohibition that I'm aware of where one is forbidden to defend one's self and family. In fact, any man who wouldn't defend himself and his family is a coward, and any woman who wouldn't defend her children is equally as detestible.
In one case in the mid-west, a man was advancing on a woman with a handgun. She couldn't bring herself to shoot and the intruder knew it. So as she stood there shaking, he advanced on her, grinning. Then things changed. Her young 4-year old son came into the room and the intruder turned to grab him. Before he could take a step, she emptied the six-shot revolver into him, killing him on the spot. She couldn't shoot to save herself, but her child was different.
I've often thought about that woman and what happened in her future. I just know the intruder should have left as soon as the child came into the room.
As a journalist, a number of years ago I interviewed a former burgler turned security consultant. When I asked him what caused him to give up his life of crime, he told me he was in someone's home one evening, a heavy cloth bag at his side in which he was putting various goodies. "I didn't think anyone was home," he told me. "I was a burgler. If I'd wanted to meet people," he added, smiling, "I would have been a mugger." As he was dropping things into his bag, he said, he heard the scariest sound a burglar could hear. "It was the sound of an automatic pistol chambering a round." He couldn't tell exactly where the sound had come from, but it was enough to cause him to flee, leaving his bag in the person's living room. "I never burgled after that," he said. Like anyone else, intruders can be scared. "It's not like it is in the movies, where the bad guy is all but invincible." The homeowner might have been frightened, he said, but for him it was a "lifechanging event."
Guns? I pity those people in the U.K., Australia and Canada. I was surprised to learn that many people in the U.K. were buying deactivated handguns and rifles and paying more for them than we Americans are paying for the real guns. It's a right we cherish and we certainly don't want to go down the path of Australia. Forty-five years ago, one could go into a store, buy a gun, box of ammo and a cleaning kit, take it home and no one batted an eye. The last time I bought a handgun, I was treated like a criminal. It took me hours to fill out the paperwork, and when I returned a week later after a background check, the clerk wrapped it up like it was a bomb and stapled up the paper bags the gun was encased in. Then they escorted me to the door and told me to put it in the trunk. They also wouldn't sell me ammo at the same time as the gun. This wouldn't have happened in the South, but in my state, if it weren't for the U.S. Constitution, I think guns would be illegal.
But everyone has the right to self defense in my view.
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piztjw
*** g 6/08 p. 11 When Is Self-Defense Justified? ***
When You Are Threatened
Pursuing peace does not guarantee that you will never face violent attack. Faithful worshippers of God throughout history have been victims of violent crime. (Genesis 4:8; Job 1:14, 15, 17) If a person is confronted by an armed robber, what should he do? Jesus instructed: “Do not resist him that is wicked.” (Matthew 5:39) He also said: “From him that takes away your outer garment, do not withhold even the undergarment.” (Luke 6:29) Jesus did not condone use of physical weapons to defend material possessions. If confronted by an armed robber, a wise person will not resist giving up his valuables. Surely, life is far more precious than belongings!
On the other hand, what if a person’s life is threatened by an assailant? A law that God gave to ancient Israel sheds light on this. If a thief was caught in the daytime and was killed, the assailant would be charged with murder. This was evidently because thievery did not carry the death penalty and the thief could have been identified and brought to justice. However, if an intruder was fatally struck at night, the householder could be exonerated because it would be difficult for him to see what the intruder was doing and to ascertain the intentions of the intruder. The householder could reasonably conclude that his family was under threat of harm and take defensive action.—Exodus 22:2, 3.
The Bible thus indicates that a person may defend himself or his family if physically assaulted. He may ward off blows, restrain the attacker, or even strike a blow to stun or incapacitate him. The intention would be to neutralize the aggression or stop the attack. This being the case, if the aggressor was seriously harmed or killed in such a situation, his death would be accidental and not deliberate.
The Best Protection
Clearly, there are circumstances under which reasonable self-defense is justified. People have a right to protect themselves and their loved ones from aggression and deadly harm. When escape is not possible, there is no Biblical injunction against reasonably defending ourselves. Still, the course of wisdom would be to do our best to avoid situations with a potential for violence.—Proverbs 16:32.
I have a good selection of both hunting weapons and handguns. The handguns are legally carried, and loaded with PDA. I refuse to be a victim at the whim of imperfect humans who likely never have to face anything more dangeroous than a free airplane flight to thier next paid vacation...err convention speaking assignment.