Bible Translation Shenanigans

by Perry 20 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Perry

  by Jack L. Green

  The Bible clearly and unmistakably teaches that the Lord Jesus Christ is Jehovah God. The cult known as "Jehovah witnesses" deny that Jesus is Jehovah, thus revealing that they are Anti-Christ.

  Not only have the "Jehovah Witnesses" tampered with the context of hundreds of Scriptures, but now they have brazenly moved into the Bible translation field.

  Their reason for doing this? Why the King James Version is biased, they say. The Greek Scriptures of the New World Translation appeared first. Let us examine their rules, which were to over-come the bias of the King James Version. Claiming to translate literally, they became enmeshed in their own rules. One of the rules they set for themselves in the foreword is: wherever the Greek words "Kurios" and "theos" appear, they will uniformly translate these as "JEHOVAH." That is their rule! Upon coming to Phil. 2:9-11 they fail to translate "kurios" as Jehovah.

  Why? It would read "and every tongue shall openly confess that Jesus is Jehovah to the glory of the Father." Coming across I Cor. 12:3 where "Christos Kurion" appears they allow "Lord" to remain. Why?

  Because it would have read "and that no man can say Jesus is Jehovah, but by the Holy Ghost." You note, in both cases they broke their own rules, in order to maintain their bias against the deity of Christ.

  Can you trust a translation like that? Who are the translators? The convention report of 1953 glibly says "it was authorized by the Creator." In 237 places they translate "Kurios" and "Theos" as "Jehovah", why not in 37 places where they failed to do so, leaving Lord stand? Read John 8:24 and Romans 10:9,10,13, Hebrews 1:8.

  _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

  I thought the above short essay was worth posting here. In the same area of interest, I came across a NT scripture that needed to be changed in the New World Translation in order to support Watchtower doctrine. The one thing that is unique about the bastardization of this scripture is that it is actually a quote from an Old Testament scripture. I wondered how ole Freddy Franz dealt with that one. And, sure enough, he covered his tracks by changing the OT scripture as well. Shocking.

  ..........................................KJV..................................... NASB............................. NIV............................ NWT

  Hebrews 1:8 (See Ps. 45:6)

  But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever

  But of the Son He says, YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER

  But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever

  But with reference to the Son: “God is your throne forever

  Psalms 45: 6

  Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever:

  Your throne, O God, is forever and ever

  Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;

  God is your throne forever and ever
• 

  itsibitsybrainbutbigenoughtosmellarat

  Here are additional references

  Psalm 45:6 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; the scepter of Thy Kingdom is a righteous scepter.

  Psalm 45:6 (ASV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of equity is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

  Psalm 45:6 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

  Psalm 45:6 (CEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your divine throne is eternal and everlasting.
  Your royal scepter is a scepter of justice.

  Psalm 45:6 (CJB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 (5) Your arrows are sharp. The people fall under you,
  as they penetrate the hearts of the king’s enemies.

  Psalm 45:6 (CEV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 You are God, and you will rule
  forever as king.
  Your royal power
  brings about justice.

  Psalm 45:6 (DARBY) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; a sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of thy kingdom:

  Psalm 45:6 (DRA) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 God is in the midst thereof, it shall not be moved: God will help it in the morning early.

  Psalm 45:6 (ERV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 God, your kingdom will last forever.
  You use your authority for justice.

  Psalm 45:6 (ESV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.
  The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness;

  Psalm 45:6 (ESVUK) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever.
  The sceptre of your kingdom is a sceptre of uprightness;

  Psalm 45:6 (EXB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 ·God, your throne will last [or Your throne is a throne of God] forever and ever.
  ·You will rule your kingdom with fairness [ L  A scepter of virtue will be the scepter of your kingdom] .

  Psalm 45:6 (GNV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: the scepter of thy kingdom, is a scepter of righteousness.

  Psalm 45:6 (GW) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.
  The scepter in your kingdom is a scepter for justice.

  Psalm 45:6 (GNT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 The kingdom that God has given you
  will last forever and ever.
  You rule over your people with justice;

  Psalm 45:6 (HCSB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, God, is forever and ever;
  the scepter of Your kingdom is a scepter of justice.

  Psalm 45:6 (JUB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 ¶ Thy throne, O God, is eternal and for ever, the rod of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

  Psalm 45:6 (KJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

  Psalm 45:6 (AKJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:
  the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

  Psalm 45:6 (LEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.
  A scepter of uprightness is
  the scepter of your kingdom.

  Psalm 45:6 (TLB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, O God, endures forever.
  Justice is your royal scepter.

  Psalm 45:6-7 (MSG) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6-7 “Your throne is God’s throne,
  ever and always;
  The scepter of your royal rule
  measures right living.
  You love the right
  and hate the wrong.
  And that is why God, your very own God,
  poured fragrant oil on your head,
  Marking you out as king
  from among your dear companions.

  Psalm 45:6 (NOG) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, O Elohim, is forever and ever.
  The scepter in your kingdom is a scepter for justice.

  Psalm 45:6 (NASB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
  A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

  Psalm 45:6 (NCV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 God, your throne will last forever and ever.
  You will rule your kingdom with fairness.

  Psalm 45:6 (NET) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, O God, is permanent.
  The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of justice.

  Psalm 45:6 (NIRV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne is the very throne of God.
  Your kingdom will last for ever and ever.
  You will rule by treating everyone fairly.

  Psalm 45:6 (NIV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
  a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.

  Psalm 45:6 (NIVUK) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
  a sceptre of justice will be the sceptre of your kingdom.

  Psalm 45:6 (NKJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
  A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

  Psalm 45:6 (NLV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 O God, Your throne is forever and ever. You rule Your holy nation by what is right.

  Psalm 45:6 (NLT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever.
  You rule with a scepter of justice.

  Psalm 45:6 (NRSV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever.
  Your royal scepter is a scepter of equity;

  Psalm 45:6 (NRSVA) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, O God, endures for ever and ever.
  Your royal sceptre is a sceptre of equity;

  Psalm 45:6 (NRSVACE) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, O God, endures for ever and ever.
  Your royal sceptre is a sceptre of equity;

  Psalm 45:6 (NRSVCE) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever.
  Your royal scepter is a scepter of equity;

  Tehillim 45:6 (OJB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 (7) Thy kisse (throne), O Elohim, is olam va’ed; the shevet (sceptre) of Thy Malchut is a shevet of uprightness.

  Psalm 45:6 (RSV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your divine throne endures for ever and ever.
  Your royal scepter is a scepter of equity;

  Psalm 45:6 (RSVCE) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your divine throne endures for ever and ever.
  Your royal scepter is a scepter of equity;

  Psalm 45:6 (VOICE) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 O God, Your throne is eternal;
  You will rule your kingdom with a scepter of justice.

  Psalm 45:6 (WEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Your throne, God, is forever and ever.
  A scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom.

  Psalm 45:6 (WYC) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 God, thy seat is into the world of world; the rod of thy realm is a rod of right ruling, or of equity. (Like God, thy throne shall last forever; and the sceptre of thy kingdom is a sceptre of justice, yea, of equity and fairness.)

  Psalm 45:6 (YLT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

  6 Thy throne, O God, [is] age-during, and for ever, A sceptre of uprightness [Is] the sceptre of Thy kingdom.
• 

  Captain Blithering

  Marking for future perusal.. Thanks for posting..
• 

  leaving_quietly

  Regarding Psalm 45:6, There's no Question From Readers on this verse. I expected one, but there isn't one.

  There's also quite a bit of controversy about the rendering of this verse, if you look it up online. Translating it "Thy throne, O God..." seems to be the most natural, but one pauses since the context is talking about a human king. Interestingly, the word for "God" here is elohim. I'm no expert, but elohim appears to also be used to refer to humans in an elevated position. For example. Psalm 82:6 speaks of the rulers of Israel as "gods", with elohim being used in Hebrew.

  I don't know what the correct translation is, or even should be, though. It appears, at least on the surface, to be another example of eisegesis.

  Also, noteworthy, the old NWT had a footnote, "Or, “Your throne is of God; Your throne of God is.” The revised NWT does not have this footnote.
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  Phizzy

  So, basically, the Revised NWT is more dishonest than the original very, very dishonest NWT.

  Coming from an Organization founded on lies, and maintained by lies, why am I not surprised ?
• 

  PelicanBeach

  Jack L. Green: "The cult known as "Jehovah witnesses" deny that Jesus is Jehovah, thus revealing that they are Anti-Christ."

  Why do Christians throw around the accusation of anti-christ? It only shows their small mindedness. It's a stupid accusation since it does not agree with scripture thereby throwing Green's opinion into the toilet. Faithful in small things.....

  Green does not use the term as it is used in Bible:

  2John 1:7-8 "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward"

  But that's not the first error. The first error was the writer of 2John when he went beyond what Christ's early disciples said about Jesus. Here is the error:

  2John 1:9-11 "Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds."

  This late writer did not himself abide in Christ's teachings. First, Jesus did not shun, he ate and drank with sinners. Second, according to Christ's disciples Jesus said, "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." (Matthew 12:32) Third, it is this kind of filth in the NT that has granted power to the JW leadership and many other Christian leaders.

  Pelican
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  Bobcat

  In a textual note for Psalm 45:6, The Expositor's Bible Commentary-Psalms (Tremper Longman III & David E. Garland, general editors, pp. 399-400) says:

  This verse is the most problematic of the psalm. The combination kis'a ka lohim [It is hard for me to reproduce accurately the Hebrew - Bobcat], "your throne, God") may be interpreted in a variet of ways:

  • "your throne, O God" (KJV, NIV)
  • "your throne is like God's throne" (NEB)
  • "your throne, O divine king" (Weiser, 360)
  • "your throne is a throne of God" (RSV text note; cf. 1 Ch 29:23; see A. A. Anderson, 1:349-50; for a defence of the vocative, see Murray J. Harris, "The Translation of Elohim in Psalm 45:7-8," TynBul 35 [1984]: 65-89)

  Longman himself translates it as:

  Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever;
  a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
  You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
  therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
  by anointing you with the oil of joy

  Arguing against saying that the king addressed is God Almighty himself is the fact that the Psalm was originally about a Davidic king and it is not likely that the Jewish writer of the psalm would mean to express that idea. Also in the context the king himself is referred to as having his own God ("your God") in verse 7.

  On the reverse side of the coin, I think people in ancient times would have less problem giving a son of a royal family the same honors that they gave his father. The whole argument about whether Jesus should be worshipped or not (in connection with the WT) seems more to be, 'Are you on our side or theirs? Are you Democrat or Republican?' With little willingness to accept that there might be some middle ground.
• 

  leaving_quietly

  PelicanBeach: thanks for bringing that out. I thought that last night when I first read this thread, but wasn't in a position to comment. Forgot about it this morning.

  Bobcat: as always, thank you.
• 

  fulltimestudent

  Translating can be very difficult - its so easy for the un-scholastics to chuck accusations around, when on closer inspection you get to see the difficulties.

  Not defending mother WT and her little bubbies, just pointing out that translating is difficult. For example, some Chinese words need a longer phrase to try and convey the meaning of the single word, but once you use an English word in that explanation, lots of people grab it and then jump to the wrong conclusion.

  If Yahweh had really thought his message was so important, and if Yahweh is as clever as he's supposed to be, would he not have invented a 'perfect' language that could be translated without distortion?

  I support no translation, the translators of all will have been influenced by their pre-concieved notions.
• 

  fulltimestudent

  Perry, quoting Jack Green:

  The Bible clearly and unmistakably teaches that the Lord Jesus Christ is Jehovah God. The cult known as "Jehovah witnesses" deny that Jesus is Jehovah, thus revealing that they are Anti-Christ.

  If Green was really trying to discuss the problems of belief and translation, instead of just engaging in a propaganda exercise, he could have at least, acknowledged the long struggle between (in modern terms) the trinitarians and the anti-trinitarians, and not just engaged in the same sort of intellectual minimalism that the WTS uses.