thedog: And when a pedophile is truly repentent and is forgivn then molests another child was that by Holy Spirit?
Disciplinary Actions
by Cold Steel 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Gopher
Adjustments -- this is exactly how I feel about it, when you said this about the basis for elders' judgment:
Did the person not cry or cry enough, or get on their knees and beg enough to another imperfcet human being, so then they are deemed not repentant???
I am not a hugely emotional person. I tried to remain calm in the face of exaggerated and false claims against me. Perhaps the elders took that as a "do not care" spirit because one of them even asked me "do you still want to be a JW?" I said yes (which is how I felt at the time), but again my failure to appear repentant somehow (because I didn't break down and beg or cry) probably weighed against me.
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valkyrie
Maybe the JC were waiting to hear the words, " I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes" (Job 42:6), to be certain of your acceptable sincerity.
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Thoughtless
Dude, I can hear about this shit all day and it will never fail to interest me. The fact that there is so much power in being an Elder is the reason why I don't even want to take the lead in my congregation. I never really did.
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Thoughtless
Gopher, I am the same way. I do not show too much emotion in the face of trials like that. I try to stay dignified.
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thedog1
Hi to all the recent respondees (if that is a real word) to my words here. Just want to think about this for a bit and then respond again as some of the comments warrant a considered response. Won't be long though.
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cantleave
What qualifications do you possess to determine your Judhements thedog1?
Have you studied psychology? Law? Do you have any professional qualifications?
When I was an elder I never felt adequately qualified to fuck up people's lives.
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OUTLAW
During a disciplinary procedure, what would the response be if you wanted representation? An advocate?.....Cold Steel
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Then he said he wanted Representation,an Advocate!!..LOL!!!!!..
........Somebody Help Me!!.... I`m Dying Laughing Here!!..
........... We should DF him for being an Idiot!!..LOL!!..
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...OUTLAW -
humbled
Thedog1,
I am fascinated that you are engaging on this topic.
I df'd after a long series of interviews with elders, and a long wait for Bethel to research and respond to my case.
The overwhelming realization that got me out was the fear so evident among the men incharge in my congregation when I presented an issue to them that, I see now, had only one outcome: to remain a Witness I had to get rid of my conscience.
I presented them with a conscience matter that though biblically sound, did not affirm the interpretation in the literature. But that was not in dispute, ultimately. Bethel's response made that clear that my conscience was a thing I could carry in silence in the congregation or else.
The brothers were evidently not at liberty to reason from the scriptures with me on the matter. the local brothers, that is. I was particularly amazed that a brother, a personal friend and advocate of sorts--and I had thought a man of faith and bravery, was not "open any more". In the first meeting with a large number of elders I asked if I might simply read what verses the bible said and let it go at that--one brother laid his hand on the literature and said: read from this.
What would you do?
Not to derail this thread --you can pm me if you like.
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thedog1
While I realise some on this forum, such as cantleave, are somewhat exercised on this subject, I was simply stating my perspective on the issue. I do not have any qualifications in psychology, though I have a great interest in this subject and have read a number of books on it, but do not consider myself an expert by any means. The procedure in the congregations of JW's, for those who accept it, is that the body of elders are placed in a position to form judicial committees when members of the congregation act in such a way that they breach the standards that they voluntarily signed up to by becoming a Witness in the first place. This is not to sound legalistic, that is not what I am trying to sound like, but simply to emphasize that those who become Witnesses agree to play by the rules as set down in the scriptures. Fair play to you, cantleave, if, as an elder, you did not feel adequately qualified to have a negative impact on the lives of others. That is fine, your choice. Adustments, you say that nepotism plays a part, and friendship also. I remember a case I served on where a friend of mine was before the committee. I think I have mentioned somewhere on the forum that I decided to serve on the committee because I had an insight into his thinking. We ended up disfellowshipping him because we viewed him as not being truly repentant. If I had been influenced by friendship maybe the outcome would have been different. Desirous of change, even though the fact that someone had committed the sin many times could be viewed as a 'practice of sin', if the person shows repentance then the repentance is the determining factor. Adjustments, the factors determining repentance often revolve around what the person has done since they came to realize that they have done something that they need to repentant for. Have they apologized to the injured party, for example, if that is possible? Have they tried to right the wrong? Tears, or the lack of tears, are not an important factor in themselves.
...OUTLAW