The Two Witness Rule breeds Predators.

by quellycatface 11 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • quellycatface
    quellycatface

    I have a friend who works in a Correctional Facility for sex offenders.

    There is a brother who is serving a sentence for having sexual relations with a number of under age girls.

    Due to the "the witness rule" this man has not been disfellowshipped. His congregation are still supporting him and he receives visits from the Prison assigned elder.

    I cannot contain my anger.

    This is surely breeding predators.

    I have probably mentioned this on here before but I wanted to post in this area for emphasis.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    How about attracting?

  • truthseekeriam
    truthseekeriam

    Exactly jnat. My husband and I have thought about the fact that predators love to brag to other predators about how they get away with it! I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's some sicko guide for what religions are the easiest. I would put the JW's right at the top!

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    It shows how ill-advised and harmful their scriptural interpretation is. A jury or judge found this person guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. It is a high burden for the state to meet. All they have to do is have new light. They have this love for a first century moral code, regardless of whether it makes sense today. Children had very low status in the first century. This is why Jesus' remark to have to suffer the little children come on to me was remarkable.

    They are wrong about so many matters. I don't see a solution. We aren't dealing with normal people. The mandatory reporting laws might make a big difference. I've read interviews with law enforcement personnel about how sophisticated the pedophile culture is. They probably are attracting pedophiles to hide in KHs. When I was young, the elders were always telling me to work with strangers rather than my parents who were present. Once in one of the most racist towns in NJ, I was paired with a young black brother. This was when the only interracial couples you saw lived in Paris or a few blocks in Greenwich Village. My parents always said I would stay with them.

    I hope that the Conti case can be the beginning of a notice requirement to the local KH. They manipulate scripture. Does anyone know how many states have mandatory reporting laws as of today? Firefox does not allow me to link or copy and paste. According to a Christian Science Monitor article these laws do not work well in real life. Clergy members are not coming forward. The sanctions for non-disclosure are minimal in many states. It is not only a problem with the Witnesses.

  • yadda yadda 2
    yadda yadda 2

    They have this love for a first century moral code, regardless of whether it makes sense today. Children had very low status in the first century. This is why Jesus' remark to have to suffer the little children come on to me was remarkable.

    That's a strange statement. Are you suggesting that the JW's today are properly following the Bible's moral code on this matter? Let's get this clear: Jesus would never have condoned anything remotely like what the Watchtower Society does today. And it should be clear that the two witness rule in the bible was applicable to disputes amongst adult members of the congregation only, not for horrific crimes that the scriptures are clear are to be dealt with by the higher authorities as God's "ministers" to punish evildoers (Romans 13).

    Anyway, the 'two witness' rule in the Bible is only meant to reflect the principle of needing "sufficient evidence", since nobody deserves to be punished without proper evidence. They didn't have forensic evidence and other modern scientific and advanced evidentiary methods of determining criminal guilt in ancient times. If sufficient evidence to prove guilt is gathered through any such modern methods, with or without two or more human witnesses, then the Biblical principleis satisfied. It's sheer spiritual blindess to take this ancient biblical 'rule' as a literal requirement in modern times in matters of accusations of gross crimes.

    And the standard of evidence must of course not be so unreasonable in crimes against innocent and silenced children. To have a policy that says one witness to a crime against a child is not enough is disgraceful.

    Only a quasi-Jewish cult such as the JW's still held in thrall to the legalistic, pharasaical interpretations developed by childless fanatical old men who lived in ivory towers all their life would hold to such an insane and harmful policy.

    The sheer pig-headed stupidity of JW's in this matter is similar to the fanatical stupidity of a tiny Samaritan group in Jerusalem today that now numbers only a few hundred members left and who are suffering in-breeding and genetically deformed babies as they still take literally the ancient edict not to marry others outside their faith.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Quite the opposite.

  • zeb
    zeb

    QF. Hope the bastard likes the feel of hot coffee down his back as this quick form of pay-back is common against child offenders but the Cor facility probably has him in a separate(safe) area...ironic.

    There was a case in Australia where a second time around sex offender was given false alibis by members of the cong* and the judge noted this but the newspaper article only said members of his 'church' not that it was jw. How this fact occured and how these ones ones were not charged with perjury or attempting to pervert the course of justice was an evil miracle.

    * I cant believe the jw here would have done this in isolation it must have been organised.

    BONTR and YY2. You haveboth summed it so well. This is another i print off. I will be sending this onto the "Drum" a weekly ABC tv discussion panel that raised the need for compulsory reporting of paedophiles in their last program for the year.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    We've read that CA is now a mandatory reporting state. When I went to find an article that summarized how many states mandate reporting now, I came across a Christian Science Monitor article. i can only use JWN in Firefox so I have problems with links. According to the article, mandatory reporting by other professionals is working well. Clergy mandatory reporting is not working well across a range of religions. Witnesses are not the only religion where people are reluctant to come forward. These statutes need more enforcement and more serious sanctions. It is disappointing to me.

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    The two witness rule is another area of the bible they get wrong. The real meaning behind the scriptures are, if some one sees a brother coming out of a bar drunk and then a few days later another person sees this brother coming out of another bar drunk , then theres two witnesses that this guys has a problem with drinking to much.

  • ekruks
    ekruks

    We may have reasons to be displeased with the organisation, but let us not suggest that they are the only organisation that has such a prelevance of child rape (I know the phrase is painful, so the word 'abuse' is used, but this actually softens how horrific a crime it is). Any organisation runs such a risk, and most religions, and many organisations have had such a problem. In the UK, it's been discovered that top figures in the BBC during the 1970s were paedophiles, and the great respect show for older persons in that time, especially in religion, only gave power to be abused - wherever there is any form of power, human nature as it is, people will abuse power.

    As for the claims that the FDS differ from the state law, that is not true. The mention here of "reasonable doubt" only applies to suing people for damages, i.e. money for the pain caused, and it does not apply for disciplinary action, such as imprisonment (or disfellowshipping), which requires beyond reasonable doubt, but absolute certainty. The law clearly states innocent until proven guilty, otherwise, people could be accusing innocent persons of crimes. It's very important that criminals are restrained by the law, but it's also important the state cannot punish an innocent person. It is usual for the court to demand evidence, of which DNA is most convincing, otherwise, two witnesses - this is not unique to JWs or the Bibles but the law. The JWs could be sued if they started disfellowshipping on the basis of one witness, because without a second, it would legally be defamation of character. The actual real tragedy is that the FDS, in actually properly following scripture and keeping seperate from the world and looking for the holy spirit to reveal matters, have not fully co-operated with the police, viewing Jehovah's law and protection as superior. However, the question should be, can one be so loyal to the Bible, knowing what it contains? What people here throw anger at the JWs for following is actually scripture!

    It is also tragic that judicial committees, and elders, in general, not just in such cases, handle matters poorly, due to a lack of training, arrogance due to feeling they are under the power of the holy spirit, reliance on the spirit to guide allowing gut feelings, and intense office politics that results when an organisation is so closed, so self-appointing, free from inspection, and without qualifications. It's incredible that it's not harmed more people!

    All your bitter violent anger towards these mentally-disturbed individuals is not in line with scripture, where a repentent child molestor was allowed back into the first century congregation. Personally, I would have any such person detained in a mental institute for life, as they are a clear danger to children, but your vicious anger doesn't show any humanity - I would not conclude these people are simply selfish, but must have some mental defect in the first place to want to do such to a child. Americans are so into revenge and killing, but your crime rate remains high - maybe you should focus your attention to finding out why people end up so disturbed and stopping it from occuring.

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