If a brother wants to reach out to be elder, yet brothers are holding him back for dubious reasons, can/should a brother approach the CO and ask him what he needs to be done to be appointed or perhaps having a discussion along the lines of why the elders are holding him unfairly back. Anybody have any experiences along these lines? Is this a good strategy? Any possible problems if a brother does because I've heard on these forums about certain brothers having success doing this and getting appointed over the elders objections? Thoughts?
CO overruling elders on appointments
by toto555 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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AllTimeJeff
It can work both ways and I've seen it. This mostly occurs if a body of elders recommends someone that for whatever reason, the CO doesn't want to approve. If that happens, and they don't work this out at the elders meeting with the CO, than the CO will forward his letter as to why he doesn't approve of the appointment, along with the elders explaining why they disagre with the CO, along with the summary on the CO's report. In almost all cases, the Service Dept will side with the CO.
In some cases, an elder moves from another congregation and the appointment is held up. If the CO likes the former elder, and there is no "organizational" reason that has been violated, then he will be appointed, even if the new congregation elders don't want it.
There are some "problem" brothers (whom I've since come to learn, have a soul and a mind that they haven't quite wholesaled out to the Borg) whom don't get along with the elders very well, and are always in the CO's ear. Whether they be MS or not, typically, the CO has to ultimately make a call as to whom he will support. If the BOE has a good reputation, the complaining brother will always lose. If for whatever reason, the BOE and their congregation isn't doing good, and the brother can make a good argument, his chances of getting approved do go up.
It is very situational. Bottom line, it is the exception and not the rule when both the BOE and CO do not agree, and yes, a huge portion of that reason is the politics involved.
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cantleave
I have seen a CO override the decision of the BoE when a brother was recommended for an appointment and also make a recommendation himself when the BoE had previously not considered someone.
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williamhconley
CO's are trained to work and guide the Body of elders to follow WT policy. They cannot impose recommendations as this is an area at the discretion of the body. Besides if a body sticks to their guns and are not in agreement to recommend a brother, the CO cannot do absolutely anything unless the reason given is clearly bogus and the CO has guts to stand up for someone. Rarely though will CO's make a stink about a brother not being recommended.
We had 2 capable MS's in our Hall that have been serving for many years and not once did the CO ever ask the body why they weren't recommended. If a brother complains to the CO, he might ask the body about that brother but will not fight for him.
I have however seen 3 cases where the Society or branch gets involved and sends a letter to the body as to why a certain MS after serving many years is not appointed elder but this happened because an elder wrote to the branch accusing the body of negligence & holding back brothers.
Another case was for an MTS graduate that had served in Bethel, had 11 yrs full time service and 8 yrs as a MS. The branch wrote the body telling them to recommend him in the next visit. These cases are extremely rare though. The norm is for the body of elders to recommend a brother whenever they feel like it and no one tells them otherwise even if it's MANY years.
W.H.Conley
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williamhconley
There was another case I just remembered where the elders recommended a brother to become an elder and the CO did not agree stating that the brother needed more experience. The elders did not budge and the CO had to send their recomendation. However, in that report he stated to the branch the reasons why he didn't agree.
To the suprise of the body of elders, that brother was appointed as en elder even though the CO was not in agreement!!
These are rare cases though. As ATJ stated...at the end of the day appointments and privileges comes down to how good you are at politics.
W.H.Conley
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Witness My Fury
Why on earth would you want to be made an elder or MS?
I had a period of 7 years as an MS and wasnt far off being made an elder when I moved away for a job and changed congregations, I wasnt bothered about being an MS much in the new cong and working lots and lots of hours made it harder.
So I wasnt appointed an MS in the new cong, (yay!) ....about 8 months later I return to my old hall again, fully intent to get on with the troof and be reappointed again as an MS asap. I made that clear straight away to the PO.
Well i tried and tried and 7 years went by and there was always some little excuse given as to why I wasnt appointed. So I gave up saying fuck em to myself....Nothing could persuade me to reach out after that and within a few years I was doing research and starting my fade.
Later it turns out it was the PO all along blocking me from being reappointed as revenge for me exposing his own sons dirty deeds years before, before I was appointed an MS in the very 1st place.
What a mindfuck this cult is....
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DATA-DOG
One thing is clear. There is no real "unity" or "oneness of thought." It all comes down to personalities and corporate procedures. Some BOEs will appoint someone even if the old KH wrote a bad letter about them. Some follow the letter and make a brother pay a penance for years. It just depends on who is constipated at the moment and how much A** you are willing to kiss.
DD
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Oubliette
WMF: What a mindfuck this cult is....
Great new slogan! I love it!!!
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AllTimeJeff
The whole subset on this discussion is a simple matter of organizational politics. All businesses and religions have them.
In JW land, you have to be pretty secure to disagree with a CO, and then, handle it the right way. (i.e. don't ever come across as not liking the CO, the BOE, etc. Don't make it seem personal.)
In most cases, there needs to be unanimous agreement on appointments and deletions. Few fights based on principle occur, because most elders (who were smart politically and thats how they became elders in the first place) know that it simply isn't worth it in the long run. If you get a reputation, or if your cong BOE gets a reputation, that is awfully hard to shed. And a CO with an agenda against you is a mighty major pain in the @$$. Don't start fights you can't win is something that has been working within the walls of JW's for over 100 years now. (well, except that whole 1914 thing..... )
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Syme
First, my personal opinion: Why on earth would someone want to be appointed??? I mean, it is 2013 for god's sake, we live in the Age of Science and Reason, religion in general goes further down to oblivion, where it belongs. While humanity progresses in explaining the secrets of life and the universe, does this brother really want to be part of a medieval Inquisition with total lack of respect for human personal dignity? Does he really want to waste his adult life trying to convince others (by force, in cases) for an imaginary "End" which is always "round the corner"?
But everyone has the right to do with their life as they want: so, now, the politically correct opinion, from my experience as an elder. I'll use second person for convinience.
Don't ask the CO directly for the privileges thing. If you ask directly "What can I do to be appointed?" you'll sound "not humble", and it will probably cement your efforts to be appointed. Instead, arrange an appointment for field service with the CO, and ask him for advice with regards to your progress. Don't mention the privileges nor the BOE's stance. Your object is to become better as a person and a Kingdom worker; you don't care for offices. Ask for specific fields in which the he believes you have room for further progress. He is probably going to admire that straight (but humble at the same time) asking for specific advice. If the BOE's negative attitude is really showing, he may mention it on his own. All your speaking should have a positive, even happy, tone. Do NOT sound negative, or bitter, in ANY way. Better let the BOE sound negative, not yourself. Negative repels, positive attracts.
Now, about the CO overruling the BOE, it depends on the CO's character. If he is a strong character, he probably will be able to pass through his opinion on the matter, and even make the elders agree so that a unanimous suggestion is sent to the Branch. If he's not such a strong personality, the BOE will probably win. For instance, we had a CO who was very gifted, experienced, and VERY strong personality. Needless to say, when he wanted a specific individual appointed, he made the rest of us concur. On the other side, if he didn't see a specific person we suggested as ready, he would make us hold off the suggestion. But with others, not so strong, COs, the situation went the opposite way round.