TheGreat Tribulation was in the 1st century

by maccauk11 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  maccauk11

  "THen there will be a great tribulation, not seen since the beginning of time nor will everoccure again. Im saying,Christ was talking about the comingdestruction of Jerusalem in the 1st century and not the end of the world but the end of the jewish system of things. There is no end of the world
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  designs

  Preterists are fun

  The Jews got back Jerusalem and the Romans got Versace
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  maccauk11

  Over one million jews were murdered, straved etc in that 1st cnetruy seige just as The Messiah warned them it would be. The Jerusalemthat existssinc ethne has nothing to do with the KIngdom as people of every tribe nation and tongue cna enter in spiritually into the eternal temple and city through THe Messiah
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  Crazyguy

  I have found the Peterist Idea very interesting and now that I'm out of the ORG I'm going to study the validity of this idea.
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  Bobcat

  For a discussion of the literary breakup of the Olivet Discourse see here and here.

  These posts breakup the Olivet Discourse according to the two questions that were asked in Mt 24:3. The divided answer is 24:4-35 for the first question and 24:36-25:46 for the answer to the second question. "This generation" of 24:32-35 neatly concludes the answer to the first question ("When will these things [the destruction of the temple from 23:33-39] be?"]) tying back to "this generation" of 23:36.

  The "great tribulation" of Mt 24:21 falls within that context. And the immediate surrounding context ('disgusting thing standing in a holy place' [v.15], 'fleeing from Judea' [vv. 16- 18], 'praying that the flight not occur on the Sabbath' [v.20], all argue that this was instructions for a 1st century Jewish audience.

  Some might argue that Mt 24:14 was nowhere near being fulfilled by 66-70 AD. But "inhabited earth" was used synonamously with the Roman Empire. The NICNT-Matthew commentary (p. 909) posits:

  • In what sense, then, would the good news of God's Kingdom be heard "all over the world" before that event [66-70 AD] occurred? The "world" here is he oikoumene, the "inhabited world," the world of people, which at that time meant primarily the area surrounding the Mediterranean and the lesser known areas to the east, around which stretched mysterious regions (comprising much of our "old world") beyond the fringes of civilization. More narrowly it was sometimes used for the area covered by the Roman Empire (as in Luke 2:1). The same phrase hole he oikoumene is used to describe the extent of the famine in Acts 11:28 and the extent of Artemis worship in Acts 19:27. Such uses suggest caution in interpreting it [Mt 24:14] too literally, even in terms of the then known world.

  Incidentally, the action in the first part of the prophecy concludes (at 24:31) with a fortelling that Jesus would expand the collection of his "chosen ones" to the ends of the earth. (See here for comments on 24:31.)

  Some feel that "all the tribes of the earth" of v. 30 requires some expanded worldwide application. But "earth" can just as easily be translated "land." And referring to people of the nations as "tribes" in Matthew (or in the entire NT except for Revelation) does not have precedent. Translators render it "earth" due to an already existing belief that the prophecy has a major later fulfillment. (Compare Luke 21:20-23 where "Jerusalem" gets surrounded and the time has arrived for "great necessity upon the land and wrath on this people.")

  Some feel that the description of the "great tribulation" in 24:21 requires some greater tribulation than what happened in the 1st century. Concerning that, the NICNT reference mentioned above states (p. 915):

  • Josephus's lurid description of the horrors of the seige (War 5.424-38, 512-18, 567-72; 6.193-213) shows that, while v. 21 uses the hyperbolic language of apocalyptic (cf. Dan 12:1; Joel 2:2; 1QM 1:11-12; T. Mos. 8:1; Rev 16:18), it is an assessment which those involved in the events would have been agreed on. (Josephus himself, who was involved in the events, claims that none of the disasters since the world began can compare to the fate of Jerusalem - War 1:12.) In passing, we should note that "nor ever will be again" confirms that this passage is about a historical event, not about the end of the world!

  Revelation 16:16-21 fortells something that has some similarities to Matthew 24:15-30, but it is not the same sequence of events (where M 24:15 = R 16:16; M 24:21 = R 16:18, 19a; M 24:29 & L 21:25, 26 = R 16:19b; R 16:19c has no parallel in M 24; R 16:20, 21 = R 19:20, 21 with no parallel in M 24.

  At any rate, this is just offered as food for thought. No intention of sparking an argument. And all due respect to any who feel differently.

  Take Care
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  EdenOne

  marked
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  Apognophos

  I'm sorry, macca, I want to read your posts, but when my brain sees what looks like someone typing on a broken typewriter while aboard a train that is in the process of jumping off the tracks, it just says, "Nuh-uh, I can't handle this."
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  Over%forme

  Maccauk, I agree. Jesus said it pretty plain.
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  maccauk11

  Apognophos im sorry i type too fast and also my keys are gettting old, thanks for telling me
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  kaik

  Disagree with that notion. 1st century AD was probably the most stable and prosperous era of the Roman Empire, which marked the begining of the Golden Age of the Imperial Rome and the Pax Romana. Roman Empire also had stable relationship with Persia, which was important for stability in Levant. Persia and Rome had not engaged in long war for almost 200 years. Some areas of Roman world had not seen war for next 500 years. Roman economy boomed, where taxes were about 2%, and interest rates were the lowest of the antiquity. There were several external conflicts like war in Britain, Judea uprising in 66-73, etc, but they were minor provinces of the empire. The core was not affected. Also majority of Jews lived outside Judea, in Roman and Persian empire, and were not affected by uprising during Jewish war. The biggest city of the Jews was no Jerusalem, but Alexandria. For Jews scattered througout the known world, the destruction of the temple was painfull, but did not affected their every day life.