by snare&racket 18 Replies latest jw friends
The watchtower moan about copyright when people quote or display the shepherd the flock book, but those big margins are there for the info they dare not write in ink, the juicy bits! Being in the margin and penned, are not copyrighted...
Anyone fancy copying their margins, or sharing the interesting legal/doctrinal bits and bobs?
Anyone have the time to scan them in?
Maybe they differ by country or refion, could prove interesting!
Snare x
I have to ask, were elders mythological to you or something? I ask that because between this thread and your question in another thread about whether it bothers elders that post here because they're not equal or something? Not attacking you, don't get me wrong, and maybe I'm looking too far into your posts, just wondering.
Mythological... No not at all, very human.
Who becomes a policeman? What type of person yearns to be a politician? Thats why I ask about being an equal after being an elder, most seek it like it is a golden fleece or army ranking. I have never seen a man give up authority with ease, in any walk of life.
As for the margins etc, this is where all the illegal, controversial notes are made by elders at the schools that dare not be printed in a publication.
There is nothing insignificant in seeking evidence for inappropriate management of child abuse, domestic violence, higher education, apostates, visiting forums such as this, punishing those who dare to ask questions etc. All issues covered in the shepherd the flock book. Anyone can read that now, thanks to the internet. It would be nice if we could also read what they don't print.
Just to nail down my perspective totally, to me WT is a cult blanket wrapped over a corporation that plays loose with laws and people'S tolerances. I am a hard working, non JW with an interest in protecting people from cults and protecting society from organisational leeches such as these 'charities'.
Elders are just guys doing a job, chasing the carrot of authority, power and respect, big fish in a small pond. They have more information than me right now, nearly 10 years out of the organisation, so if any feel brave enough, they can copy such info without breaking any laws.
Snare x
I was hesitant to spend so long replying, I have no idea who SFPW is, or your motive. It changes with the wind. But some of us hope to do more than troll. Peoples lives are in the balance, and I am here thanks to the hard work, research and access to material that others provided. I just hope to do the same at the very least. Call it..appeasing my conscience for years preaching for a cult, or paying my debt for the help I got from similair such enlightening material. Either way, thats my perspective.
Hang on, maybe I am missing something. Maybe a minority of ex-elders still don't appreciate the horror of dealing with such delicate matters without a jot of qualifiaction, all with the goal of protecting Watchtower corp.
It is probably the worst thing I have ever discovered since leaving WT. Maybe ex-elders still dont realise what they did? I know most here, talk about how bad they feel looking back.
I am not judging, we all fell under the WT spell, its just a matter of fact, reality, the history of the matter. Elders are used to do horrific things.
The information they have is very powerful in helping people leave. Most parents have not got a clue what the STFlock book said about child abuse and would be in horror to know. Most people dont know how elders meeting work and how desicions are made and would be in horror to know. Of course it was just normality to men partaking in all of this activity, they had to keep it that way in your head. But in comparison to the real world, it is some freaky, cultish, wacko behaviour!
Judicial commitees, disfellowshipping..... Damn, that is heavy stuff!
Of course people that have left want to know whats in the margins, what else don't we have access to, this all helps people leave...
SNR said- Being in the margin and penned, are not copyrighted...
At least in the States, any creative work is copyright-protected automatically upon creation. The attachment of the symbol © and registering the work with the Government allows for additional damages to be claimed in court if one sues another for infringement, but it doesn't change the fact that copyright automatically attaches upon creation.
Adam
Interesting.
yeah but copyrighted to the person who writes it !!! Not the society, so again anyone brave enough, copy copy copy....
Bearing in mind you are claiming that writing on paper is now 'copyrited' which I really don't think it is, but as I said, if it is, it is owned by the writer anyway, so no problemo!
Also, the legal team at WT prey on the hopes that people don't realise that copyright law allows for material to be shared for criticism.
Whats interesting SFPW?
SNR said-
yeah but copyrighted to the person who writes it !!! Not the society, so again anyone brave enough, copy copy copy.... Bearing in mind you are claiming that writing on paper is now 'copyrited' which I really don't think it is, but as I said, if it is, it is owned by the writer anyway, so no problemo!
Doesn't matter that you don't think it is or not: that's like Perry's not believing in evolution, since it's a FACT right out of the Basics of Copyright Law 101.
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html
When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.
When it's written onto paper, it's protected by copyright. So when a musician writes a song onto paper, and lyrics onto napkins, it's copyright-protected; same way as the recorded performance of the song automatically attaches when it's recorded onto tape/hard drive (even all the outtakes). The artist or their label likely will submit a copy for registration to the Library of Congress to beef up their protection, but that's optional.
You're right in that the owner is not the WTBTS, but the random elder (who's not likely to even be aware of the fact they own the copyright, and potentially could sue for infringement, provided the writing overcomes some barriers of originality, etc). But they can sue theoretically for CI, even though as I said, the damages are limited by not registering the work. Pretty low-risk, of course, but as we say in medicine, it's not rare if it's in your chair...
Maybe I'm more aware of it, being an ex-musician who's had to know I.P. law in that prior line of business to stay out of trouble (eg legality of sampling, playing covers in public performance, etc).
SNR said-
Also, the legal team at WT prey on the hopes that people don't realise that copyright law allows for material to be shared for criticism.
Just as many people don't understand that claiming fair use is only a defense, which still must be proven in court. They have the right to claim CI, and lately the content owners haven't even bothered with respecting the DMCA provisions that protect 'fair use' over YouTube videos: if you're using their content, they ignore the individual's right to claim 'fair use', and just yank what they want...
Adam
So,basically....I was right first time.......the elders can copy THEIR notes from the margins and those notes happen to be the most interesting too.
I was obviosuly refering to Watchtower not being able to claim copyright on the handwritten notes, not the person making a copy of THEIR notes.
(My goodness, this forum is becoming a court room with you Adamah, you agree with me, but in the most round about way as possible lol)
Anyway, any elders reading, get copying, save it in .pdf format and dump it on a peer2peer site! But only use your own notes! :D x
Who knows how it may prove useful to someone in the future xxx
Stand for Pure Worship is our resident censor. A JW - in spiritual Drag - suffering intense CD / CB yearning to "come out" but stricken - like a ship in stormy seas - with guilt.
SFPW - You certainly like to set you own rulz about which web-pages you wish to participate with. Even though this is clearly against da rulz !! YOu hang around here cos you lurv being with this crew. Also it keeps you ahead of the pack in getting he latest nooz and gossip on things as this place is always one step ahead of the rest.
I'm off to the beach - nuff of this !!
Ta Ta dearies !
