The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty 2596 Replies latest jw experiences

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  Miss.Fit

  Cofty: are you going to update your summary? Has anyone used the " it was their time to go" excuse?

  I went to my inlaw's born again funeral, and the pastor said it was his time to go to his heavenly father for his reward.

  Also I was wondering about the definition of love. I know JWs teach that God's love was the agape love....more principled and abstract then emotional love. Along the lines that a parent will discipline their child out love.

  I hope you understand what i'm getting at. I might not have explained it clearly.

  I am trying to get match the arguments and responses to the talking points I was taught to all my life. I found myself automatically responding with some of the numbered responses. Your responses have made me think and reexamine my first impulse answer. I now stop and think: is that what I really believe or know as a fact or is that answer one that I was conditioned to believe as a fact.

  Thank you for your patience. I know it seems you are repeated yourself. But think of some of us as blind trying to undetstand the concept of colors. We know it exists but have a hard time concieving it.

  Miss.Fit
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  jgnat

  Adamah, for your hallmark card reason number 1), I challenge the believer with the story of Job. To accuse the victim of hidden wrongdoing is to be a "Job's Comforter"; small comfort indeed. The answer that God gives in Job is interesting in itself. In summary, God is bigger and smarter than all of us and he does not need to explain his actions to any man. That would point towards all-powerful but uncaring.
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  cofty

  Hi MissFit. yes I am still planning to update and improve the summary. I think I will condense some of the answers into similar groups.

  Thanks for your suggestions as well.

  I will look at them when I do the sumamry and think about where they fit in.
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  caliber

  For tragedy befalling a fellow believer, the other believers select from the following buffet menu of options:

  1) They weren't actually as good as they seemed to be, but had committed some unknown sins in secret for which God is now punishing them. God punishes the evil-doer, even those who cover their sins from other humans.

  2) They were good and hadn't committed any sins for which they're now being punished, but as the Bible says, "unforeseen events befall all".

  Although the Bible informs us how and why evil came about, We know that God is all wise and all knowing and that He has reasons for allowing things to happen that are beyond our comprehension.

  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.( 2 Peter 3:9

  Men are slow in fulfilling their promises from various, often selfish, motives; the Lord's delay comes from love and long-suffering.
  
  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16)

  It is essential to comprehend the difference between(1)unforeseen death and (2) judgement from God which is to perish with no future hope
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  cofty

  Caliber - Preaching a sermon is not the same thing as giving an honest answer to a straightforward question.

  He has reasons for allowing things to happen that are beyond our comprehension.

  As we have discussed at length that is a non-answer. It is cowardly and dishonest.

  It would be honest for a deist to say that god's passivity is a mystery. Thesits do not have that luxury.

  You make countless grandiose claims of knowledge about your god. You claim to know his personality, his likes and dislikes, what he wants us to do and what he forbids. You claim to know many details of his history of dealing with humans.

  So when you are asked a very simple question like why did he casually observe the drowing of a quarter of a million innocent men, women and children on 26th Decemebr 2004? you do not get to hide behind inscrutibility.
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  caliber

  the scirptures above speak for themselves

  He has already taken action

  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16)
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  cofty

  Caliber - do you really understand the question?

  I am asking how you to reconcile the following...

  According to you god knew abouth the earthquake below the Indian Ocean on 26th Decmber 2004 and about the wave that resulted.

  According to you god had the power to calm the wave before it even reached the surface.

  According to god knew if he did nothing a qaurter of a million innocent men, women and children would drown within the hour.

  According to you god loved those 250 000 people.

  God did nothing.

  Why?
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  caliber

  He has already taken action

  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16)

  in the Bible we see God’s love is manifest to men and women everywhere in urging them to escape this judgment. God in love pleads with people, ‘Do not go on to this end!’ But ultimately he must judge those who refuse his offer of grace.

  Fear not death but God's judgement
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  cofty

  So Jesus got himself killed 2000 years ago and somehow that justifies god doing nothing while a quarter of a million innocent people drown.

  Are there words to describe a moral monster that would do such a thing?

  Your promises of "heaven tomorrow" cheapens the value of human life. A quarter of a million people are to be discarded like flotsam.

  Your theology is anti-human. It denigrates life. It is a cult of death.
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  caliber

  Meaning does the word grace hold for you ?

  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.(Revelation 2:14)

  why is death and destruction all you see ?