next week's bible reading (Gen. 1-5) stumpers.for your "in" family conversations & sly comments.

by prologos 31 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Theredeemer

  I brought up the Tree of Life issue with a JW friend. I mentioned that Adam and Eve were not made to live forever. Everlasting Life was contingent on eating the fruit of life. This was the source of immortality, not God. Adam and Eve were made to die. The punishment for sin was getting kicked out of paradise and thus missing out on delicious fruit that happens to grant eternity. They did however get to become "like God" in knowing good and bad. Death did not enter our DNA when they sinned, it was in us from the get go. Death did not enter into us through sin, nature was allowed happen because they sinned.

  So I posed the questions, " If God made man in his image, then why was he made to die?" "Does God need to eat a magical fruit too in order to keep living?"

  Of course, my friend was overwhelmed and just had a blank stare. Actually, this was the conversation that led to me blurting out "the religion is BULLS&%T!!" and which led to my wife and I being outed.
• 

  pixel

  Good points Theredeemer.

  The WT/FDS/GB teaches that what was wrong about eating was because they did not care about God's sovereignty. Can someone point me to where does the Bible teaches this? and not that they died because they eated from the tree? as simple as that?
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  J. Hofer

  first there was vegetation, then there was light. plants worked differently back in the day.
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  FadeToBlack

  I'm actually offering to do the assigned bible reading with her this cylce - from the beginning. I wanted her to know that I am not a total spiritual degenerate and that I am interested in the bible (just not in the same way she is). I've been preparing lots of 'points for discussion'. Not sure if she will take the bait. I think she smells a trap.

  But seriously, how can you not read the bible if you are a 'bible student' and claim to teach what the bible teaches? Shouldn't a good student be prepared for any type of 'honest' question in the field minsitry?
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  Theredeemer

  It would make more sense if WT stated that God gave Adam and Eve a choice "You can either live forever or have knowledge like me". Satan tricks Adam and Eve into eating the tree of knowledge by saying that God lied and the knowledge fruit grants both, thus setting in motion the events that would result in man drifting further and further away from the need of God and dooming the one creation that Satan and other angels feel jealous over. God's proudest creation now ignores him and has almost matched his ultimate level of knowledge: creation of life. Almost because, although humans can create life, they cannot sustain it forever. Humans still long for this and they need this, God being all loving sent his son to prove to all that, although we are ment to die, as Jesus did, life continues on in heaven. Jesus was not, I repeat, not immortal. If he had been, nothing could have killed him. He would of hung on that cross forever. Take the example of vampires. You can shoot them, stab them but they are immortal. For them to die you have to do some very specific things.

  Jesus was mortal thats why he died! But, his spirit was immortal and he went to heaven. This is the only reason he was sent. As a "proof" of resurrection, not as a ransom sacrifice. Thats Pauls Hebrew background influencing his thoughts.

  Anyway, when put in this context it makes a little more sense. Its still all crap IMO.
• 

  88JM

  One line that I've heard trotted out is something like: "although evolutionists may not agree with how things started in Genesis, they do agree with the order things came about". This is incorrect of course - evolutionists do not agree with the order of things in Genesis either.
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  DS211

  1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and desolate, and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep, and God’s active force was moving about over the surface of the waters. 3 And God said: “Let there be light.” Then there was light. 4 After that God saw that the light was good, and God began to divide the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, but the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, a first day. 6 Then God said: “Let there be an expanse between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.” 7 Then God went on to make the expanse and divided the waters beneath the expanse from the waters above the expanse. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. 9 Then God said: “Let the waters under the heavens be collected together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.10 God called the dry land Earth, but the collecting of the waters, he called Seas. And God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said: “Let the earth cause grass to sprout, seed-bearing plants and fruit trees according to their kinds, yielding fruit along with seed on the earth.” And it was so. 12 And the earth began to produce grass, seed-bearing plants and trees yielding fruit along with seed, according to their kinds. Then God saw that it was good. 13

  actually light came first :-/.
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  FadeToBlack

  @bats: thank for posting that! Typical JW logic. Start with your conclusion and work backwards. Everything must support our conclusion, because our conclusion is true. I need to make a wall-sized poster of that and put it up in my office. And then 'decorate' it a bit with a few cloud comments attached.
• 

  adamah

  Theredeemer said-

  It would make more sense if WT stated that God gave Adam and Eve a choice "You can either live forever or have knowledge like me". Satan tricks Adam and Eve into eating the tree of knowledge by saying that God lied and the knowledge fruit grants both.

  Actually, the WTBTS goes out of it's way to bury the Hebrew word which all other translations render correctly which describes WHY the fruit was desirious for Eve to eat: it granted eaters not just generic 'knowledge', but WISDOM. ALL other translations render it properly, but only the NWT mistranslates the Hebrew word.

  I discuss that deliberate mistranslation of Genesis 3, where the WTBTS apparently decided to bury the evidence which only leads to other problems with the account (eg the so-called "Paradox of Adam and Eve"), apparently trying to prevent the 'domino effect' they had the balls to cite in their own literature.

  http://awgue.weebly.com/the-paradox-of-adam-and-eve-and-how-the-new-world-translation-fruitlessly-attempts-to-keep-it-hidden.html

  Adam
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  FadeToBlack

  @adamah: I am enjoying your blog posts. Nice work.