The only way I could know that is if I'm alive in the first place. So...it sort of answers itself, in a way.
--sd-7
If you knew that you might have pain, suffer disasters, certainly end up dead,-- given the choice, the power, would you have prevailed upon your parents not to have brought you into the world?
by prologos 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Cold Steel
How do you know you didn't come here of your own free volition? Remember the Lord's words to Jeremiah: Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.Then said I, Ah, Lord God ! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child. But the Lord said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak. (Jeremiah 1:3-6)
Or when Jesus healed the man who was blind from birth? Master, who did sin? This man or his parents that he was born blind? (John 9:2)
If the man could have sinned before he was born, it means he most likely existed. Nevertheless, the Lord made no attempt to correct his disciples. He simply said, "Neither this man or his parents sinned," he said, explaining it was to show forth the power of God. Personally, I don't believe that God would send anyone to a world like this without first gaining their approval. Imagine sending people into hell holes all over this planet without them agreeing beforehand. The JWs teach that God creates men and women from the womb, then subjects them to hard lives and he threatens them with destruction if they don't choose the correct religion. It's not only unjust, it robs his creations of their free agency. Add to that that the Lord creates each man differently with varying intelligences, talents and opportunities, then expects them to find the "narrow path" which, the Lord himself admits, "few" there be who find it. Is that fairness? Doesn't it rob man of his free agency? What did any of us do to be treated like this? Does being all powerful justify any being to do that?
The only way it becomes just is if we had a first estate, and that we've moved from that to this "second" estate, and that we've all agreed to come to the earth for one reason or another. If the atheists are right, this is all stuff that just happens. No one's in charge.
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tec
If you knew that you might have pain, suffer disasters, certainly end up dead,-- given the choice, the power, would you have prevailed upon your parents not to have brought you into the world?
No, I would not. (and knowing that I WOULD have pain and suffering... my answer is still no) I may have thought otherwise during a couple times OF pain and suffering (albeit emotional pain and suffering; I have not really had much of physical pain and suffering)... but having lived through it, learned from it, and having joy, peace, love, excitement, zest for life again, etc... well, I am grateful to be alive; all things that come with that in mind.
I love being alive.
Great question, btw.
Peace,
tammy
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prologos
sd-7 whenever a being starts to assert itself in the struggle to maintain life, it answers in the affirmative. retroactively?
OTWO: so is there a reason to complain about it?
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transhuman68
LOL, when I was a teenager I really, really wished I had been born to more 'normal' parents... and in my 20's I guess I couldn't have cared if I was dead or alive half the time... but now in my 40's it all seems good- even though my life is just as f****d-up as ever- at least I can accept full responsibility for the way it has gone. Even now I'm living my life the hard way- and it's a result of the way I was raised- but also my refusal to compromise. I dunno- I guess I just totally accept life as it is- or I'm just thick in the 'ead.
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LongHairGal
Prologos:
The part about changing our ancestors is just stretching it a bit too far. I mean, why not go all the way back to Adam? See what I mean?
But, the answer to your original question: I am glad I was born, even though I did not have it easy. Of course, if I were in a great deal of pain and misery I would wish for oblivion and I am sure most people would want to be out of their misery too if that were the situation.
There are some mistakes I would undo: for one thing, I would never have gotten involved with the Jehovah's Witnesses.
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prologos
Yes, that insertion was deliberate. because
if you stretched even past Eve&adam or "the common ancestors" all the way to the creator:
why the whining, parents know that their offspring faces the fate of their grandparents, yet celebrate the new life.
suffering is a result of survival mechanism, like pain is a protection, famine should teach to reduce poulation growth, to move on, or do science to bolster food production & distribution (without encouraging further dependence).
a better justice system to hold merchants of death not only responable, but stall their efforts. --on&on
do not blame, we are on our own, we better own up to it.
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Apognophos
I won't know until I've been alive a fair amount longer! Still trying to fade and start a new life, at which point I hope to do something meaningful with my life for the first time. If I end up an old man who hasn't accomplished anything, I'll probably say that life was a bad idea, but if I feel like I contributed more than I took, I'll say, "It was definitely worth going through the bad times."
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Separation of Powers
"Extinction is an abhorrent thing. Only when one is faced with extinction does one fully understand the beauty of a breath." SOP
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Band on the Run
I screeched this at my mom when I was a teenager. The abuse was so raw.
Now that I am older, I still want to be here. All humans faced the same condition. Living eternal life would bother me. I never wanted any WT theocracy. B/c of where I now live, I am recalling my teen years. There were so many things I wanted that seemed unattainable. I don't know when it all happened but I realize now how blessed my life is compared to my teen years. If I lived in a Third World country or a dictatorship, I might feel different. There are many life experiences I savor.
One of my most glorious is starting to work at the law firm as a lawyer. They gave me a tour when I interviewed but we only stuck our heads in the library. It had complete window walls looking out over the harbor. You could see majestic scenes of the Statute of Liberty. As I sat with my Greek take-out coffee cup, I looked down to Brooklyn. I faced the WT time building. My body had goose bumps. I just sat there alone and drank my cofee slowly. Life can be very sweet. That moment was up there with Paul McCartney and WHO concerts.