Cult?

bchapp

JW's claim they are not a cult because their kindom hall meetings are open to the public. What are your thoughts on this?

~Seeking Answers

jerome

Remember this next time a Witness stumps you with a question similar to that.

When it comes to the Jehovaah's Witnesses their logic usually dose not stand up to scrutiany. So remember to always analyze the question quickly before you try to anwser it because it may be nonsensible.

That statement (we are not a cult because we allow everyone to come to our meetings) is irelevant, it has little to do with the identifying characteristics of a cult, here is why.

One of the definitive characteristics of a cult is NOT access to its meetings. You can deny access to your meetings and not be a cult or vise versa.

Therefore that question caannot be used to determine whether or not the Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult.

But in all fairness though certain sects political, religeous, athleitic, personal relationship or otherwise do restrict access to their gatherings. But this does not necessairly make them a cult.

That question sends you running on a wild goose chace because it is meaningless. That is the result isnt useful.

A cult is defined by.

1) Totalatarian government. i.e The authority figure whether it be a single person or a board of individuals has COMPLETE AND TOTAL CONTROLL of EVERY ASPECT of LIFE of ALL its ADHERENTS.

2) Its wealth DOESNOT benefit its members.

3) Its leader is mesianic. [ With the JWs their leaders fulfill a Bible prophesy i.e the faithfull and descrete slave class.]

4) Its leadership is accountable to NOONE. [ Even though the GB is accountable to their maker after they die (for thoes who believe that we have a maker) they donot have to anwser to any human being.]

5) They utilize DECIETFULL coercive tacticks inorder to recruit and retain their membership.

6) Information within the group is restricted to persons depending on their level of authority. [ How many former witnesses have found out more about the organisation when they left than when they were a member?]

They are many types of cults including political (nazi party), athelitic, interpersonal (gurus) and of course religeous.

Did you see access to meetings on that list? No. Like I said its a wild goose chace. Yet again I tell you to use your noodle when incountering Witness logic because most of the time it isnt logic at all!

Moral of the story:

Letting anyone come to you gatherings dose not disqualify you from beeing a cult. There are many cults whose meetings are open to the public.

Therefore this does not disqualify the Jehovahs Witnesses from being a cult.

jerome

The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and there may be hell to pay.

NeonMadman

Another Watchtower "straw man". Who defines a cult as not allowing public access to its meetings? No one I've ever heard of.

This is akin to their saying that they're not a false prophet because 'false prophets do not admit to making mistakes'. Wrong! False prophets are the only kind of prophets who would need to admit their mistakes, because true prophets don't make mistakes!!

And, actually, many JW meetings are closed, not only to the public, but to the rank and file as well. Virtually every church in the world allows any of the membership who wish to do so to attend its business meetings, but when was the last time you heard of the average JW being allowed to sit in on an elders' meeting? Or a judicial committee? In regular Christian churches, such matters are generally conducted openly, 'at the village gate,' as it were. But not among the secretive, cultic, JW's.

Tom

"Gentlemen, he said, I don't need your organization, I've shined your shoes, I've moved your mountains and marked your cards. But Eden is burning"
--Bob Dylan

Quotes

The Watchtower Society has spent and entire two paragraphs explaining what a cult is and why they are not a cult.

That's right, two whole paragraphs!

It's sad to beleive that at one time in my life, I actually believed that this was sufficient analysis and proof that they are not a cult! (How embarassing for me... oh well, I was young and stupid).

See http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/cult.htm

===========================
For interesting Watchtower Society literature quotes, complete with references but without any editorial, check out:
http://Quotes.JehovahsWitnesses.com

Lady Lee

Right on Jerome

Amazing how the borg keeps trying to convince people that they are not a cult because their meetings are not held in some hidden out-of-the-way hide-away.

Duh somebody wshould tell them to get a tiny bit educated to the definition of cult

----------

egads - just take a minute to type and eveyone shows up
Hi y'all

Aspire to inspire before you expire

jerome

Get aaccoustomed to the term straw man when incountering statements and questions orignating from Jehovah's Witnesses.

Basicalically a straw man argument is a steriotypicall generalization of a given characteristic or datum like 'all apostates are liars'. Or the fundamential assumptions of the statement are in error.

Have you ever heard of the statement 'Garbage in Garbage out?'.

In a straw man argumet the fundamental assumptions are fallicy/garbage and when used to decern a logical conclusion you end up with more fallicy/garbage. Garbage in Garbage out.

A straw man argument is garbage to begin with cleverly disguised as a scientific statement. i.e pesudoscience. [fake science]

As sighted in above posts the sterotypicall generaliztion was that 'Cults do not allow everyone to come to their meetings.'

As pointed out above this is pure fallicy, simply because they are many cults that DO allow every/anyone one interested to come to their meetings. So this cannot be used as a distinguishing test for Cultic patterns with in an organisation. But it can be if it accurs in conjunction with other factors shuch involving anti-socal behaviour. Never the less it is fallicy.

Do not confuse this with secrective organisations such as Bin Ladens Alkeada which for obvious security reasons will not allow any and everybody to come to their meetings.

Moral:

Straw man arguments work by supplying you with Garbage and then expecting you to come to a sensible conclusion.
The result is that you are sent on a wild goose chase looking for a meaningfull anwser to a meangless question.

jerome

bchapp

This is great stuff peeps. Thanx :)

DanTheMan

Jerome,

Regarding #3, check out this thread I started:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=27011&site=3

It is scary how much emphasis they put on their silly "faithful slave" doctrine.

jerome

yeah i realized that long time ago.

They`re always stressing on the food provided at the proper time by the FDS.

They set up themselves in the place of Christ so that people will have to go through them instead of having a personal relationship with God.

jerome

Bang

It's not uncommon for cults to be gettin' up to some rather illegal behaviours, but besides that, society generally gives much more latitude to bible using groups, so long as they're makin' picket fences. The jw illegalities are kept further from the sight of mainstream law.

They are quite experienced at using such general notions as this argument to confuse any situation. Much of the time there are "current" language issues involved in the deception. They use what is current, with the tides and waves so to speak, rather than any etymology.

Here's a couple of examples.

Humble from roots - knowing where you're at, down to earth
Humble from wtbts - being subservient, doing as your told

Jealous from roots - guarding and protective
Jealous from wtbts - envy

Responsible from roots - able to respond
Responsible from wtbts - legally documented duty

I'm in the process of making up a dictionary according to the wtbts to reveal how deceptive language meaning is used to readily take people away with the current.

Language issues sure help their strawman arguments.

Bang

Cult?

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