What do you say if you get asked "Are you an Apostate?"

by KateWild 58 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Oh, there were so many different Christianities in earlier times. All claimed power to determine who was apostate. Pagels explained what a bad reputation the book of Revelation had. It embarassed church Fathers. Paul was an apostate to James and Peter. Paul's is always justifying his claim to be an apostle. If he were accepted as an apostle by all, he would not linger over it so much. There were warring popes many times with massive battles. When you read histories, the military logistics are more important than the ideas. Politcal power made legitimate teaching.

    During Tudors times, there was civil war all over England. Society suffered. Archaeologists found that regular people kept both Roman Catholic and Protestant worship elements at home. There were secret hiding places. Depending on the course of a battle, one could be one religion at noon and another at six.

    The Witnesses do well when people don't know history or religious movements. The Witnesses are insiginifiant. I believe that most members here feel they are the true apostates. One way of looking at is the American example. Was George Washington the father of his country or a traitor? It depends on military power. For long stretches of time, he was an apostate traitor to his home country. All the Founding Fathers had strong ties to Britian and only a few years before the actual conflict, wrote of their devotion to King George III. Americans don't appreciate how British we were. Historians love telling of John Adams being sent as the first ambassador to Great Britain. Mr. Great Britain, turned political traitor and activist, being sent to represent the interests of an independent country. King George III did not want him as a symbol. The British public viewed him as a traitor. It all depends on your perspective.

  • problemaddict
    problemaddict

    People that leave seem to fall into a few groups.

    1) People that are done wrong, get angry, leave in a huff, and burn every bridge on the way out that isn't being burnt by others. Life is hard.

    2) People that wake up, and leave to maintain sanity. its hard, but they just want them and their family out. They get on with life.

    3) People that wake up, fade, and just shake it off and get on with their real life.

    4) People that leave because they are "spiritually weak", and are riddled with guilt for years maybe returning for a memorial. They are still believers, but just think they have screwed the pooch.

    5) People that get disfellowshipped and go buck wild. Never had sex before? Lets have sex with everythign that moves! Never did drugs before? Lets cook out food in hash oil will doing metth with my hmouth and heroine with my toes. They burn out, they return to the flock.

    6) People that are DF'd or JW in their youth, but just kind of don't care. They aren't true believers and eventually life takes them in a different direction.

    He is probably 4. He might as well be a JW. When you are a number 4, you have the same defense mechanisms most JW's do. If you get labeled, it excuses any behavior he may have towards you. Its truely just a way to throw you in a box. Kate, you are a JW apostate....this is certain. But no you should never accept this definition from them, and give their mind manipulation tactics any credence.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    ..........................

    ...........The WBT$ exJW Apostate.....Is a WBT$ Fairy Tale..

    .

    ........ExJW Apostates want to Lure you Away from Jehovah!..

    ExJw Apostates want you to Join their Church to Worship Satan!..

    .......................ExJW Apostates Are EveryWhere!!..

    ..... photo Creeping.gif

    ...................................................................................................  photo mutley-ani1.gif...OUTLAW

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    I like that one since I was a convert anyway, so would have been an apostate when I got baptised as a JW. Good one of the question comes up again.

    If you were feeling bold or wanted to jolt someone, you could say, "Sure, in fact I'm a double apostate! First I apostasized from Judaism, then from the Witness organization." This deflates the term back into meaning what it says in the dictionary, and puts both of your former religions on the same level, which should shock a Witness to hear.

    But as stated by others, if you're trying to reach someone gently, even if they're not actively attending meetings they could still be under the control of the Watchtower, so it's better to avoid triggering defense mechanisms in people by adopting what they know to be a loaded term. I think your response was a really good one because you made the other person arrive at their own judgment after hearing your story.

    Labels are just too facile for metally putting other people into a box, it's why I don't like to apply them to myself (for instance, calling myself an ignostic instead of an agnostic is taking a stand against a religious label that is too loaded for some people).

  • Bungi Bill
    Bungi Bill

    It has never happened to me yet:

    - but if asked, I would describe myself as "a former JW who is now non-religious."

    I refuse to wear labels that other have dreamed up (particularly the Governing Body), and if "former JW who is now non religious" sounds quite a mouthful - then I couldn't care less!

    Bill.

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Hi KateWild, I admire you for trying to reconnect with your bible students.

    You did ok with answering his question, because now he wants you to return to meetings with him instead of running away from the WTBTS. In situations like the one you encountered, it would probably be best to encourage him to do independent research, visit sites like either www.jwfacts.com or www.freedomofmind.com, and make up his own mind. He is no longer a child and should be encourage to critically think for himself instead of like a brainless child that the WTBTS wants him to be.

    On the other hand, I would also consider answering his question with a shock-n-awe question like, "Do you know of any famous apostate(s)? The Pharisees and Sadduccees probably considered Jesus Christ as an apostate for not following what they were teaching."

    It is unfortunate that many ex-JWs have lost faith in God, but still feel that the WTBTS has the "Truth" if there is a God. It amazes me how powerful BITE control is.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    To my mind the question is like being asked in the McArthy era "Are you a Communist ?".

    Whatever Socialist leanings you had, however mild, would be interpreted by the bigoted mind of the questioner that you are not to be trusted, and your reasonings are not to be listened to.

    And so, if I were ever asked the question, I would evade a straight "Yes", if I wished the conversation to continue.

    Knowing me, I would probably go for the shock/joke type answer, something like, "No, I have always been a Satan worshipper and have never defected".

    From then on, if the JW had not run away screaming, we could maybe talk some.

  • Viviane
    Viviane

    I wouldn't even answer the question. Put the question right back, "Do you think I am a bad person?". I see no reason to play by their crazy cult rules and allow them to dictate what others think of me.

  • Julia Orwell
    Julia Orwell

    I've actually said the following: "I was baptized Anglican when I was a kid, and I left the Anglicans and became a jw, so technically I'm an apostate to the Anglican church." The elder had no comeback for that one.

  • Pete Zahut
    Pete Zahut

    If someone asked me that question I'd ask them what their definition of the word Apostate is. (most don't even know for sure how to define that term)

    I'd ask them if they thought that being an apostate was a bad thing.

    I'd ask them if Charles Taze Russell was an apostate from his church when he left it to start the Bible Students and if so, was being an apostate in that instance, a good thing?

    I'd tell them that I was baptized based on an understanding of certain doctrines they taught me and because of certian claims they made. Their claims proved to be false and they've changed enough of those doctrines that my original dedication has been invalidated. My dedication was made under false pretenses and has therefore become null and void. I didn't change....they did.

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