by Etude 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Punky, well said Sir, basically the same as Dawkins , but more succinct.
Some Christians would argue that Jesus introduces a new view of God, an update on the O.T God.
If so, He forgot to put his new personality in to the N.T. It is still mysogynistic, homophobic and supports the Institution of slavery.
Still a twat then.
@ Etude,
To me that's all the bible is saying. The bible is life lessons...it's a mirror. It makes one look at themselves closer before they point a finger at someone else. Remember David...he was very quick to do something, well he was a fighting man that had to be fast on his feet, you can't be a dilly dallier to fight...anyway, he would do the wrong thing, then someone would tell him a story & he would say, that person be dealt with but all the while the story was about him & he was quick to recognize, repent & change..We should be ready to see ourselves & correct ourselves....you can not change yourself unless you are willing to correct yourself. I find being witness & being close up & personal, that most of them cannot correct themselves, too busy trying to change others...they also tell you what to do, yet they always say, I'm working on that...they look at the world & say they should know better but to one another they give excuses. Every now & again, I tell them this...& you get that blank witness look. They will tell you to live a simple life but do they ? Well, not the ones I know..what I found out they buy what they want to buy & deny you should have anything..So I have learned to buy & not tell...
So all that to say...Be Good & Be Ready...as you say the rest is just fluff, & it's good if you get in a conversation with someone who is interested in the bible's history..just because one knows a scripture doesn't mean they are smarter...just proves they can memorize.
Legacy
I’m absolutely convinced of your sincerity and fervor. Your parallel about how we both fell for the scam of the WT is true; and, we have both changed dramatically since. Here’s where we differ: I decided not to let my emotions, and even further, my passion, desire and need to believe to be the pivotal factor in finding answers. I set on a path to discover what I could really know with any degree of certainty. I can tell you know that my quest led to more questions than answers. However, I think I (in many cases, reluctantly) reached some conclusions I’m willing to live with. I summarize my condition as one where I will often say “I don’t know” about many things rather than force an answer and admit to not knowing because there is no practical or logical way to know.
I realize your need to surrender to the idea of Christ and accept Him as your Savior. But that doesn’t make Him real any more than anything I can imagine and don’t have. It’s a very seductive thing, though unselfish and even spiritual. What I’ve found is that I receive similar benefits by appreciating the universe and its wonders; by nurturing my relationships; by being in awe at the realization of the complexity of life and the cosmos by looking at a cell or a galaxy. By telling you all of that, I’m stressing to you that what you have is not exclusive or simply the purview of believing in Christ or any other deity. I did not come willingly to this place. I arrived after an arduous trek and then noticed that it was good. More importantly, I realized that it was not the destination that was ultimately important. It was the journey or how I got here that made all the difference; having sincerely reasoned; having kept an open mind; having been challenged by others to rid myself of tradition, religious inculcation and belief-based separatism.
No one can deny you your feelings. But many can certainly demonstrate that aside from you, those feelings are not founded upon any real quantities. That is one of the fundamental questions I started asking even before I left the WTS. I thought about it because I had already experienced intense attachment to causes and had felt highly emotional about something greater than myself. I had to take a more sober and rational approach rather than be a victim to my loftiest desires and good intentions. It’s a good thing I never lost the fervor and intensity for anything and that still allows me to enjoy life with reasonable freedom.
Etude, Do you believe everything you read? The Bible says absolutly nothing about God being an ass-hole. That was coming from men, men with an agenda. How many Spiritual saga's have you read in your life? Do you understand the difference in allegory and illustration as opposed to factual reading? Perhaps there's a message afterall in the Bible and other Spiritual texts that you have chosen to ignore. Just because a corrupt government and religious system failed is no reason to ignore the Spiritual; it failed because it was wrong, period. You have been taught from childhood, from the government, from the educational system and from religion to ignore your Spiritual, feminine right brain in favor of the more practical and controlable masculine left. Society has everyone thinking backwards, even implying that male was created before female. They have everyone thinking about making and spending money, nothing else. The world has been living in a fishbowl and the fishbowl is full of shit. Look outside the entire fishbowl if you're interested in truth, stay inside it and follow its capitolistic god. Your free choice.....
George Carlin: God always needs money!
In answer to your questions: “No”; “Many” and “Yes”. I detect that you’re making some definite but incorrect assumptions about what I believe and how I’ve arrived at this place. Do I really have to literally read in the Bible that God is not an asshole to know whether or not He’s not an asshole? Although I don't disagree, I’ve never used such a term. That was Captain Obvious. In a passionate rant, I might say that. However, I refrain from it in order not to unnecessarily offend other people. But, why can’t such conclusions come from deeply disappointed people who have spent a good deal of their life questioning and searching real for answers instead of the uninformed individuals you picture? Why must it be that anyone who doesn’t agree with what you say be cast in a less learned light?
Tell me, how many brown ducks do I have to encounter and count before concluding that all ducks are brown? This is where your reasoning falls short and makes you petty and judgmental. I don’t need to count; I just need to encounter one single exception to conclude the opposite. This is why you have made a notable but incorrect assumption about what I’ve “chosen to ignore”. And you also have not read sufficiently well my recognition of a “spiritual” need in humans, even though that can manifest itself in many right and wrong ways.
No, not everything that fails does so because it was wrong. Life is not binary, yes or no, good or bad, right or wrong. I stated that earlier: “If you look at reality with an unbiased eye, you'll find that there is no "good" or "evil" or "light" or "dark"; and I mean that in a moral sense and not a physical sense. But even in a physical sense, those things are a matter of degree from the absence of one thing to a full complement of it.” “Really, things simply ‘are’.” I realize you may be the type who likes simplicity and expedient answers in order to settle your own uncertainties and give you reassurance that everything will be OK. I, however, am content to accept questions I cannot answer and not believe in things I can’t verify, like the Bible or anything you say I’ve been taught by a government or an educational system or tradition.
Really, I don’t have to look outside the fishbowl because I removed myself from it a long time ago. It’s not the most clear and well-lit place to be, but it is better than being in bowl full of biblical shit. I sense that you, on the other hand, have your own definition of “truth” rather than one you can actually sustain via a cogent argument.
