How was Adam Perfect? He sinned....Duh (page 2)

Black Sheep

To divert him from his pre-programmed spiel, you could also ask if he thinks every snake that doesn't have legs is a descendent of that one?

It’s difficult to address this subject without mentioning the relative nature of “perfection” and of “sin”. I’ve always used the following example: If a parent forbids a 2 or 3-year old to go near the top flight of stairs, the parent is dictating for the child what is good and bad. In fact, that is the case for a good period of a child’s development. Rules are set and there is punishment for disobedience. Does that mean that going near the top flight of the stairs is bad? No. The parent does it. It’s only bad for the toddler because the parent says so.

The point is the relativity of the act. I’m sure that someone put a lot of thought into existing arguments about what happened to Adam and Eve and it seems much of it make sense (in a limited way). The fruit was inconsequential. It could have been a rock upon which they were forbidden to sit on. The point was the act of choosing and deciding to determine for themselves what set of rules they would go by. To choose their own would automatically be a rejection of any other. Obedience would no longer be an issue. Maybe the designers of such a story had something, a very fundamental principle to illustrate.

The question of perfection is also relative. What is perfection? I think an instrument such as a piano is perfect. There’s very little room for improvement in it, even after centuries. It fundamentally remains the same. Some other radical change would probably render it NOT a piano but some other new instrument. That means it’s perfect for the reason it was designed. If a being is designed to have the ability to choose using free will, then the possibility for choosing a detrimental course is built in. Otherwise, to prevent certain outcomes would be to pre-program the entity with limitations and less than free will.

The problem I see with all of that is that if there are consequences to choices not sanctioned by God, the serpent or the Devil seems to have received very little by way of results. Yeah, he was cast out of heaven. But it seems he’s OK with that. On top of it, he seems to enjoy wreaking havoc in the world. It also doesn’t make sense why God would allow all of this to happen (especially the suffering), instead of killing Adam & Eve and the Devil and his fallen angels and start over. Nothing God does, as the ultimate arbiter, would be bad or evil or wrong, just as it is not bad or evil or wrong for a parent to forbid a child from approaching the top of the stairs or any other thing that the parent decides in the interest of the child. But that’s the point. The God of A & E is not acting logically…perhaps because he doesn’t exist.

Jack C.

Adam was perfect all right, the perfect patsy.....

punkofnice

Again, the JW perspective is based on already established assumptions.

In order to erradicate any questions we work backwards from the assumption to see if it has any validity first.

I did this with my thread with my question about evidence of Jesus outside the Bible. It's all very well talking about what Jesus did and said.....but.......if he didn't actually exist then the arguments are null and void.

As it happens, my research gave me no evidence that Jesus actually existed....or at least as the bible portrays him.

How was Adam Perfect? It is a void question. He didn't exist..........in my opinion that is.

Everyone will follow their confirmation bias methinks

galaxie

Hi all ,just a thought , if Satan put a doubt in eves mind who at that time was"perfect "ie is without sin, then who put the doubt in Satan's mind or conciousness if you like after all wasn't he created as a perfect angel? Seems to me it could only have been his creator . Does that not create a circle of thought which can't be squared? Just a thought!!

sir82

If you analyze Harry Potter, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, etc. too closely, you are bound to find inconsistencies.

Why should the book of Genesis be any different?

Apognophos

That's not the Society's current interpretation of this account, DS211, and it doesn't sound like the elder did a good job explaining it to you. The cursing of the serpent is symbolically referring to the cursing of Satan, according to them.

*** w07 6/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
Questions From Readers

Did the serpent that spoke to Eve have legs?

As recorded at Genesis 3:14, Jehovah God addressed the serpent that had deceived Eve in the garden of Eden. God said: “Because you have done this thing, you are the cursed one out of all the domestic animals and out of all the wild beasts of the field. Upon your belly you will go and dust is what you will eat all the days of your life.” The Bible does not specifically state that the animal used in tempting Eve had previously had legs but lost them. While the wording of Genesis 3:14 might lead some to think so, we need not necessarily conclude that prior to this curse, serpents had legs. Why not?

Principally because the real object of Jehovah’s judgment was Satan—the invisible spirit who had misused that lowly animal. The Bible describes Satan as “the father of the lie” and “the original serpent.” Both of these expressions apparently point back to Satan’s using a visible animal, a serpent, as his mouthpiece to induce Eve to disobey God’s command.—John 8:44; Revelation 20:2.

God created serpents, and Adam had apparently given serpents their name before Satan’s deceptive act. The unreasoning serpent that spoke to Eve was not to blame. It would have been unaware that Satan was manipulating it, and it could not understand the judgment that God rendered against the disobedient parties.

Why, then, did God speak of the serpent’s physical abasement? The behavior of a serpent in its natural environment, crawling on its belly and flicking its tongue as if to lick up dust, fittingly symbolized Satan’s debased condition. Having previously enjoyed a lofty position as one of God’s angels, he was consigned to the lowly condition referred to in the Bible as Tartarus.—2 Peter 2:4.

Further, as a literal serpent might wound a man’s heel, Satan in his debased state would ‘bruise the heel’ of God’s “seed.” (Genesis 3:15) The primary part of that seed proved to be Jesus Christ, who temporarily suffered at the hands of Satan’s agents. But the symbolic serpent’s head will, in time, be permanently crushed by Christ and his resurrected anointed Christian companions. (Romans 16:20) Thus, God’s directing his curse toward the visible serpent aptly pictured the debasement and ultimate destruction of the invisible “original serpent,” Satan the Devil.

How was Adam Perfect? He sinned....Duh

DS211

Captain Blithering