Do you think that the WT has gotten stranger as time goes by or is it that with distance comes perspective? (page 2)

flipper

4THGEN- I agree with Long Hair Gal that the WT organization is getting MORE controlling, unloving, and unempathetic. And also equally weirder. But in reading Steve Hassans books about cult mind control - THAT is what cults and high control organizations DO when they are feeling more desperate and threatened. If you look at what has happened in the media in the last 10-15 years with the Internet and access to information - people in general are being made aware of the unjust WT Society policies concerning child abuse, blood transfusions, disfellowshipping & shunning . So much so that the WT Society cannot hide under a rock anymore because their skeletons are falling out of the closet. To WT leaders- free access to this information is a bitch and very troublesome to them. Why do you think the size of the WT legal department has expanded ? Just for the reasons I state. Damage control. So the longer time goes by with no alleged " Armageddon " or " paradise " - you will exponentially see the WT Society using stranger even MORE desperate measures to keep their financial ballgame going in order to control JW's and keep what they have. My 2 cents

BU2B

I think they have gotten much more cult like and controlling with the advent of the Study (kool-aid) edition of the WT. Almost every week is a non encouraging non educational guilt trip, emotional beat down, do more fest, and list of dont dos. It also almost weekly beats the drum of obey obey obey. Obey the GB, obey the elders. There is also a weekly praise of the organization and king David or other OT charachter, and seemingly less and less mention of Jesus, how to apply Christlike qualities, of anything "deep". Everything they discuss in the WT seems to have the angle of manipulation of one of the BITE catergories. They have done this for decades, but I feel it is geeting more intense and constant now. It just feels more opressive and unloving than it used to.

neverendingjourney

It's all about perspective. Objectively, the WT has gotten more conventional in their beliefs with the passage of time. Gone are the days of pyramid inches, a resurrection of "princes" of the old testament preceding armageddon, ban on organ transplants, and the list goes on and on.

Even with respect to the cultish aspects of the religion, it can't be any worse today than in the aftermath of the Ray Franz expulsion when rules were being invented on the fly to eliminate any possible influence from high-ranking members who were eschewing orthodoxy. In fact, even unbaptized publishers could be shunned. You didn't even have to be baptized. As recently as 7 or 8 years ago parents interacting with disfellowshipped children was tolerated whereas I knew of several elderly people who hadn't spoken to disfellowshipped children in decades because it was absoultely prohibited during their time.

We see things more clearly now that we are out, but I don't think it's really any worse that what's come before.

problemaddict

I agree its about perspective, but the WT has changed some as well in the last decade. The study edition of the WT is radically different, and I believe in recent years the rhetoric regarding the GB has been notched up a bit. College is back to being discouraged, and they are a bit more defensive than ever. The persecution complex is alive and well.

Yet, they have embraced a web presence (kicking and screaming to get there). They have doubled down on enforcing disfellowshipping in the family and keeping "separate" from any material that could challenge their faith.

The main thing they are doing in my opinion, is actually pretty smart. Most of the worlds population is going to be in non-western countries. Asia, Latin America, and Africa are the spots. So there is a GB member who worked in the Philipines now. The literature has been kept or made very simple (simple read edition), to get basic points across to less educated people. This plays perfectly into the demographics of the world at large. And we all know once you have the obedience and someone believes you are Gods chosen ones, then its very hard to break that mind free.

Case in point.

We don't take blood transfusions because the bible says to abstain from blood. Is taking a trasfusion "abstaining"?

No! I guess it isn't.

Right. But don't worry, there is paradise, and doctors don't even like to use blood anymore which just justifies our position as being from God.

Wow. I never knew that.

Done.

Much more complicated is to explain the context surrounding abstain, int he light of the law code and the allowances in it post Noachian creed, and of course then how it related to the gentiles and jews culture issues of the time and Pauls famous words in the meat market.

The numbers will continue to go up.

OUTLAW

Are things stranger now or do we just see things clearer once removed from influence?

The WBT$ is as Strange as they`ve Ever Been..

.

.You See Things More Clearly When Your Not..

...........Trapped In WatchTower World..

..............

............................................................. ...OUTLAW

Band on the Run

Compared to the teachings of Russell, they are less weird. I believe it is mostly how worldly you become. Looking back, I wonder why I did not walk out at five. I have some background in mainstream Christianity today so the contrast is greater. Reading my NT in consecutive verses makes my eyes pop out at some of their statements. I want to cry b/c my family believed with a passion. My child's heart wanted to be loved. I knew I had to be a hard core Witness to be accepted.

Within my family, there would be debate off-Witness property about changing doctrines. My grandmother was sort of a feminist stuck in the wrong org. I pushed as a child how she could believe the ample put downs of women. She agree that she could not believe. Her belief was immaterial. It was Jehovah's org. and she would comply.

They were inclined to be good Americans, too. I am deeply embarassed when I read WT literature. Selma and Steve's story was enough for me in terms of recent development. For all the decades I've been away, my feelings should be neutral. They are not. I am still on this forum.

Phizzy

They are still weird and crazy, I don't think any more or less so than in times past.

Looking back to Russell and then Rutherford but taking in to account the context of the times they lived in, thye were weird and crazy compared to mainstram religions, but plenty of similar wacky cults and ideas abounded in those times.

I agree fully with what has been said above, they are more rigidly controlling and heartless in their administration of "discipline" than they ever were.

Just as an example, back in the 1970's I asked an Elder what would likely happen to an old JW friend of mine who had simply left, and after a few years joined a Church. I was afraid they would DF him. The Elder replied "We are not a Police Force, we do not hunt people down, he will be left to get on with his life".

Can you imagine an Elder taking that line today ?

processor

They have always written the weirdest things. Some highlights from The Golden Age are featured in this magazine:

http://www.svhelden.info/pdf/witchtower_07_2010.pdf

And even 1971 they claimed that we should not "make the mistake of viewing the literal heart as merely a fleshly pump as does orthodox physiology today. Most psychiatrists and psychologists tend to overcategorize the mind and allow for little if any influence from the fleshly heart, looking upon the word “heart” merely as a figure of speech apart from its use in identifying the organ that pumps our blood." - w71 3/1 p. 134

eyeuse2badub

Once you get ttatt, everything that the wtbts says sounds strange.

4thgen

Thank you for all the posts. There were some histories mentioned I wasnt aware of. Yes the org has always been strange....Just seems stranger the further you get away.Its likened to an abusive relationship..you may not recognise it when your in it but others can see the signs. Sometimes its with distance and time you can look back and see the whole picture. Then exclaim 'OMG WHAT WAS I THINKING???????'

Do you think that the WT has gotten stranger as time goes by or is it that with distance comes perspective?

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