Resurrection without a soul that survives death. (page 2)

caroline77

I understand that cells die and are replaced all the time, so where is the 'me' that existed 10 years ago, or 20 years ago etc.?

I am a clone of those me's.

My consciousness is electrical discharges in those cells.

The krazy krispy kristians are not the only ones with the problem. Buddhists suffer a similar (though different) problem with the doctrine of re-incarnation. Can't be bothered going into detail but if you wish to torture your brain cells - just try to understand it.

mynameislame

Does the fact (I actualy don't know if it is a fact) that our bodies regenerate themselves every so often make a difference?

Technically you are not the same person physically that you were when you were born, doesn't seem much different than being resurected and being recreated from a memory.

I'm not a believer in the resurection but just something that came to mind while reading this.

mynameislame

oops looks like caroline77 stole my idea before I even thought of it.

Island Man

clarity: "Island Man it is not about "value", it is about experience."

Yes, our life experiences shape our brain which in turn shapes our personality. Thus our life experiences become hardwired in some way, into our brain. So if the brain is perfectly cloned then all those hardwired experiences are also cloned and clone will end up with the same memory of those experiences and the same personality shaped by those experiences. The clone would be the same person with recollection of the same experiences.

The psyche is a product of the brain. Perfectly duplicate the brain and you have the same psyche - the same person. Don't forget the fact that the experiences are past events so even if you're talking about resurrecting the absolute same body with the absolute same atoms and molecules and cells, etc, the experiences will still not be an actual part of the person (in the way you seem to imply) because they would still be past events that no longer exist in the present but exist only as the imprint they created on the brain. So duplicating the brain with the same imprints is no different.

In other words our past experiences which have shaped our personality are all stored in the brain. Duplicate the brain and you have the same person with the same experiences and the same personalty or psyche shaped by those experiences.

Phizzy

To be truly "you" every memory you have must be re-created. It has been proven that our memories change with time.

So, presumably "God" is keeping a Super File of all our memories, but which ones will he choose to re-implant ?

For me to be really me, He will have to give me back all the memories I have of the naugthty sexual things I got up to throughout my life. Does that mean He is not only watching me, but remembering for me all the times I found those Ladies so alluring ?

And the times I did things with some ladies ?

He is a dirty Voyeuristic Pervert if you believe that will happen, if it won't though, the resurrected Phizzy will not be the dirty old man he is today, or the Randy Teenager he was. (Probably a good thing, but you get my point).

love2Bworldly

What I could never figure out, is I was always being told the resurrected person would not have the same body so they wouldn't look like the same person. Ok that makes no sense at all if God is all powerful. There are identical twins in the world, so why not a resurrected person who looks just the same as before?

fulltimestudent

love2Bworldly:

What I could never figure out, is I was always being told the resurrected person would not have the same body so they wouldn't look like the same person. Ok that makes no sense at all if God is all powerful. There are identical twins in the world, so why not a resurrected person who looks just the same as before?

I guess this is the problem that arises when people who have little understanding of today's real world, attempt to provide meaning to things written by people with even less understanding of the real world.

I never heard JWs teaching that we, when resurrected, would not look like we did in our previous life. I became a witness in the early 1950's, and already science had discovered that what we are physically (and, possibly mentally/emotionally) is constructed to the pattern provided by our DNA***, hence aside from speculation as to how physically old we maybe when resurrected (i.e would J resurrect us physically old and we'd grow young, or what????) we would have to look like we did in our previous existence.

But its all bullsh*t isn't it? There will be no resurrection of any kind. When we die - we are dead.

*** its a little more complex, as recently its become clear that there are switches that can turn our genes on and off

factfinder

I agree with Island Man. Jehovah can recreate us using the same DNA, our memories, experiences, personalities, etc. are all created by our brain.

We WOULD look like ourselves, jws taught that others who knew us would recognize us by our aoppearence, voice, mannerisms etc when we are resurrected.

I do not have the same cells I did at birth, or 7-10 years ago, nor do I look exactly as I did when I was younger, but I am still me, I am the same person, although with different cells duplicating according to the same DNA.

That being said, I don't have much faith in the resurrection anymore but I hope it is true.

There is no reason to believe that the creator of life and the cosmos with its billions of galaxies and stars can not bring a dead person back to life if he wanted to. (If there is a creator.)

jwfacts

Good point, the Watchtower soul sleep doctrine is not nearly as satisfying as that of an eternal soul.

But how would not be a just a clone instead of being actually us?

It would be just a clone, which means there is nothing to stop God creating hundreds such clones whilst we are still alive.

Resurrection without a soul that survives death.

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