Is God real to you?

by alias 28 Replies latest jw friends

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  JAVA

  alias,

  You should post more often, alias. This suggestion comes form a guy who doesn't believe in "shoulds."
  

  After reflecting over my years in the org, I realize that I never really got to know God, but was more involved in the typical JW lifestyle/religion and of following the policies and procedures of man.

  
  As expressed in other posts, your feelings are normal and experienced by many who exit the Tower. Sooner or later we're faced with filling the spiritual void, but not sure how to start. As a JW, I didn't feel I had a personal relationship with God because like you, I was too busy jumping through the Tower's hoops. I didn't envision God without the Watchtower, and when leaving the Tower, the concept of God was vague.

  The problem of "who or what is God" is convoluted by adding the JW "false religion" sentiment some carry after leaving. It's no wonder former JWs struggle with the God concept. It doesn't take long before your topic surfaces in groups like this.

  On the topic of religion, I heard Joseph Campbell (the author of The Power of Myth) say, "Those who know they don't know, knows." As a general rule, religion is a belief system we can't prove; that's why "faith" enters the religious equation. Faith is a strong thing. Folks say they feel God's presence, feel the power, and witness atypical things. Who can tell another they did or didn't?

  The Christian concept of God doesn't work for me, and I'm satisfied knowing I don't know. Folks needing the correct religion with the right answers typically gravitate to Bible-thumping sects to prove their righteousness and rightness, while condemning others with a different view. Main-line churches are more forgiving, but the fact remains, God is a mystery we can't prove. That doesn't mean there is no God; it just means we can't prove there is. That being said, any concept of God is as valid as the religious thinkers before us.

  I believe there are numerous ways to fill a spiritual void; with or without the theism of others.

  ---JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

  Edited by - JAVA on 17 February 2001 8:42:41
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  alias

  RHW,
  I meant to ask you earler to elaborate more about "Reiki" if you feel up to it. Also, do you still read the Bible? (if so, which translation?)

  And when you said, "I have gone from being an all-knowing JW to a person who "knows" little, but who is open to much", you expressed my sentiments exactly. Funny though, even back when I was toting my "Reasoning" book in my service bag, I still didn't feel like I had all the answers. A good thing because the transition from "knowing everything" to knowing very little hasn't been as difficult for me as for some others I know. But I do understand the mindset. These days I'm full of more questions than answers. I like that better because there's so much more to explore.

  JAVA,
  Thank you for your input on this too. LOL, I should post more often, eh? I am a much better listener than a poster these days. It's been my experience that this specific communication medium takes a lot of extra effort and energy for me to be involved with. Misunderstandings over word choices, style, personality, and opinion are a large part of the whole DB animal that I've had my fill of trying to smooth over in the past on other boards and it's gotten to a point where I just find I benefit more from less involvement. I am a very sincere person and I care very much about how I come across and deal with others on the board but have grown tired of dealing with those who don't.

  My posting will most likely remain light. Besides, I have gathered so much from others around here by standing back and getting an objective view of things without getting personally involved.

  You said, "I believe there are numerous ways to fill a spiritual void; with or without the theism of others."

  I'd be interested in exploring some of these "ways". Would you care to elaborate too?

  Thanks so much.

  Edited by - alias on 17 February 2001 11:46:4
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  alias

  bjc2012,
  I appreciated reading your post too. I'm glad that what you have been doing works well for you. I stopped reading the publications some time ago because for some reason the whole JW mindset would flood back into me (also fear, guilt, etc) and I found it difficult to be objective while reading them.

  I've found my journey to be a little easier by starting from scratch, but when you've been "guided" into what to think all of your life and suddenly you have a wide open field in front of you, it's a challenge to know where to start (or to re-define your belief system).

  Thank you again for your experience. Yes, it is helpful.
• 

  DannyBear

  Greetings JT,

  ***some may argue whether there is a god or not, but one thing is for sure if there is a god then he has been sitting on the front porch drinking iced tea while his kids have been down here on earth getting the shaft-***

  LOL that was brilliant! History and logic directs this conclusion.

  I still believe in an Almighty Creator...one far different from the gods promoted by organized religion. To me, God put this whole universe and everything in it into operation..self sustaining as it is..with intricate care and design. Having done so, he may be right at this moment, being doing likewise somewhere else in the great infinity of space.

  Why must man box him into being the problem solver. Could it be that since he left no clear operations manual, that man frustrated and angry with his creator, decided to manufacture a guide(bible) and through its pages, express his (mans) rage at the silence of his maker?

  I tend to think Moses, Daniel, David, Christ, Paul and other bible contributors, all reflect expressions of 'seeking' as well as, we have been given God's own words...we talk...we know what God is really like.

  This makes God somewhat of a remote personage, but it is the only answer I can come up with.

  By the way I still find myself seeking him in prayer. Go figure.

  Danny
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  Moridin

  I agree with Danny. If there is a God he has a lot of explaining to do. I have done a lot of research on the subject of the divinity of the Bible and so far from what I have learned the Bible started of in the OT as a collection of stories written by ancient tribes about their different Gods. Two in particular. It's very noticeable in the beginning of the Bible that God is a very jealous and exacting God and also a kind and compassionate God. Either he has multiple personality disorder or their are two distinct Gods. I read a very good article written about the origins of the Bible and Christianity. I can't recall the address, but you can find it linked at my web site. Just look at the article, "Is the Bible God's Divine Word?", at http://www.geocities.com/graendal54/doubts.html
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  joel

  Hi Alias n welcome,

  I'm still a Christian...after walking away from the Org...my desire/need to acknowledge God did not change.

  I posted a topic called "Are your Ex' still Christian"...that dealt with my situation and thoughts...as well as many others here as well.

  I very much believe that Christianity can be proven intellectually by known facts.

  A book I recommend that deals with many of the hard questions to faith is...The Case for Faith by Lee Stribel

  I go to a large non-denominational church here in LA...where I am able to do what I am compelled to do in my spirit.

  Good to have ya here n lookin' forward to your contributions!

  Pax(Peace),
  joel
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  larc

  Alias,

  You asked JAVA a question. He may not get back to you for a couple days, since he is having company over for the weekend. You could go back to his post and click onto his web page. It is very interesting and very well done. One of the items he presents is a list of books that he has found helpful.

  I met JAVA when he first came out. For over two months we spent every Sunday afternoon at a retaurant drinking coffee and talking things over. He's a good friend to have.
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  JAVA

  alias,
  

  You said, "I believe there are numerous ways to fill a spiritual void; with or without the theism of others." I'd be interested in exploring some of these "ways". Would you care to elaborate too?

  I don't have much to elaborate on except what works for me. As JWs we attended meetings, followed routines to insure we fit into the religious community, and so forth. I've tried this with other groups, but found I needed a respite from the spiritual groove of others. That doesn't mean they were wrong or didn't have anything to offer, but I needed to go outside the box to fill my spiritual void.

  I've found refreshment by exploring books and discussion groups that honors the question, and realizes there are many answers or no answer at all. I did not found that type of community in most churches, but many are very happy there. Books like Siddhartha, by Hermann Hesse, The Prophet, by Kahlil Gibran, Tao Te Ching, by Lao-tzu, or even Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, by John Shelby Spong offers spiritual refreshment to me. Some Unitarian or Quaker discussion groups have interesting programs, and some don't. I've enjoyed a few Zen workshops that helped me find a higher purpose in daily activities, thus a spiritual walk can be found wherever I happen to be, if I want it.

  Larc was kind enough to spend many hours over coffee with me when I left "the Truth." This was before the days of the Internet, and finding a community of former Witnesses was nearly impossible. Looking back at that those times when larc and I got together, I see that as a spiritual walk, in that two people came together and shared on many levels. This might not be an answer to your question alias, but from a person who enjoys the question without requiring "the Answer," it's the best response I have. I hope it's helpful.

  ---JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

  Edited by - JAVA on 18 February 2001 11:31:10
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  alias

  larc,
  Thank you for your kindness in directing me to JAVA's Web site. It's a very interesting read. Found some good links and am still exploring.

  JAVA,
  I appreciate your additional commments on the subject as well. Thanks for the information you freely share on your site too.

  Thank you again, all.
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  TruthHurts

  Jehovah God is as real to me as he ever has been, if not more. Now I have discovered the reality of the WTBTS, I am in a position to serve Jehovah the way He wants me to, not the way a group of men who's interest is in themselves and NOT Jehovah.

  I think it is so easy to deviate from Jehovah after leaving the "truth". But remember one thing: Jehovah is real. The WTBTS are to blame for all the bad stuff they do, NOT Jehovah. The WTBTS will recieve their due punishment. Nothing can replace Jehovah. Keep faith in Him, dont let Satan get the better of you. He likes to kick a dog while its down.

  Keep praying. He will guide you. Prayer is the answer.