by spectromize 35 Replies latest watchtower bible
Dear Gozz,
David was a humble man, any of his wrongdoings I'm sure he was willing to accept responsibility for. We also have to keep in mind that Jehovah is the final and just Judge in all matters. His wisdom is far superior than man and we have to wait on Him to clarify doubts that we have in it's own time.
Spec,
So if we have to wait on Jehovah, then why rely on a organization, now? Why not just rely on Jehovah and wait on the organization to catch up.
Happy to be Free (Me)
Can you please clear up your statement, " Please remember this the next time you are told not to talk to another person for circumstances you have not heard from the horses mouth."
I was referring to the practice of "shunning" or whatever you want to call it. (You know, not talking to a DF'd or DA'd one without the risk of suffering the SAME punishment. Oftentimes without even knowing the FULL CIRCUMSTANCES of the events that transpired behind closed doors.)
I would like to ask you ianao if you ever were a JW or associated with a cong...
Not a JW, but had many many discussions with a "friend" of mine who is a JW. Spec, I am someone who had no exposure to the Bible, was exposed to it by what you would consider "Babylon the Great", found inconsistancies (myself!) Then started talking to a JW who could show me what the 'truth' was, as well as opposers. Well, after coming pretty close to Baptism (as the opposers were looking pretty stupid), I suddenly started finding inconsistencies with the organization known as the WTS. Also, after talking to several of what you would consider to be 'appostate', I confirmed my suspicions. After looking into other groups that most considered to be "high-control" in nature, many parallels come into play that are quite obvious when you look at it from the outside, but are oblivious to the insider. After talking with the "JW friend", and with any discussion involving these and other matters amounting to reading quotes from encyclopedia's who were themselves quoting WTS sources about the WTS, I soon realized a large problem with logic and sound reasoning in my "friend".
NOTE: Your definition of 'truth' and mine are two different things. I do not substanciate 'truth' as 'present truth'. To me, true/false and biblical interpretation are two different things. I also don't consider ones who actually start reading a book for what it means instead of reading it for what they THINK it means as divine selection by God.
You JWs go around spouting "no trinity", "no immortal soul" and "no hell-fire", then you turn right around and tell me a bunch of junk about 1914 and WWI and 607CE that has nothing to do with real chronology, and everything to do with copying other religions.
would like to know what brings you to this discussion board?
I guess the fact that I knew 'truth', then found it, then lost it, then found real truth, then lost it to REAL TRUTH, then LOST THAT again is what brings me here. It really helps me to deal with everything that I have gone through. Most JWs feel that to be in God's favor, you have to be in a man made organization. You have every right to feel that way, some of us know better. I personally am in this discussion forum because I am fascinated with the subject, and I've finally found folks with REAL Bible knowledge that are open to genuine discussion that isn't going to try and suck me into a no-win situation under man-made rules. If I wanted that, I would join the US Military.
Thank you for your answers, you sound like you have a depth of knowledge.
Thank you for your kindness. I do not say what I say as answers, I am only stating my opinion. Also, thank you for the flattering remark, but I'm just a loudmouth windbag with alot to say about something that's put a very big chip on my shoulder. Stick around, we need sincere people around here with different experiences.
Propserity,
ianao
Edited by - ianao on 16 February 2001 12:12:3
Edited by - ianao on 16 February 2001 12:17:25
We also have to keep in mind that Jehovah is the final and just Judge in all matters. His wisdom is far superior than man and we have to wait on Him to clarify doubts that we have in it's own time.
Interesting ideal. Please remember this next time someone gives you this reason for NOT getting involved with your religion. Not everyone has to belong to your organization. There are some who DEFINATELY don't know many answers, but there heart is one with God, not matter who or what they think he is. Most of these very same people are told to stay away from YOU by 'appostates' because the 'appostates' know that once you are in the 'org', you are under a bunch of man-made rules and controlled by fear of destruction in most cases. Sure not every JW cong is the same, but neither is every protestant church you all seem to view with discust (sp?) and group under "Babylon the Great".
What do you say to someone who loves "God" and their "neighbor", views NOBODY with malice except those who profess to hate "God", doesn't smoke, drink, fornicate, etc. etc. Are these people LOST because they aren't JWs? Is my Grandmother (Rest in Peace) going to be destroyed because she read the Bible almost daily, and never understood most of what was said, but read it because she thought it was the right thing to do? If you or any other JW tried to tell her your 'truth', she would use the same Biblical scriptures YOU use as reasoning to slam the door in your face! She would have been justified by her own means, just as you are justified by your own means. She was taught "God loves good people" from her pastor, while you are taught "We are God's people" by your org.
(I was going to say something "cute and catchy" here, but I am not so clever today.)
Edited by - ianao on 16 February 2001 12:42:55
[duplicate post]
Edited by - ianao on 16 February 2001 12:20:19
Dear Ianao,
Your Grandma's pastor was correct in saying " God loves good people "
No amount of claim to belonging to a group will guarantee you life. It is the fruits produced by good people that bring praise to the Creator. You have brought out very good points. Thank you for your honesty.
Dear Eyes Opened,
Not everything the org. has taught is wrong, oh yes there definetly is discrepancies in some of the teachings, such as going beyong as the Master has said concerning the time when this system will end, " Nobody knows the day or the hour."
I remember working in field service one day with a person and that person made a very striking remark of which I will never forget, that person said to me:" At the end of the thousand years under the kingdom while we work in an organized fashion there will be individuals who will not want to let go of their positions."
Figure it out from here. The human heart is quite deceptive.
Food for thought on that one Happy to be free,
I have no answers on that one I will have to research. But let me say this if we are waiting on Jehovah are we keeping up with the fruits of the spirit?
Spec,
I don't think it is possible for humans to wait on Jehovah. To wait is to imply that we are ahead of Jehovah in thinking. This is a term that I have always found presumptious (sp?). And it is always the answer the WTBS and JW give when they have no answer.
We should rely on Jehovah only. Because we could never be in the position of thinking ahead of God. I think that is what got Satan into trouble. And if God does not speak on it, then it is open for us to decide for ourselves. But, remember this is only my opinion. This is how I use my free thought.
Happy to be Free (Me)
P.S. Another thought from me. The WTBS ability to always run ahead of Jehovah only proves the only God they follow is their father, Satan the Devil. If you want to be honest with yourself, you know Jehovah is always used as a smoke screen. It is common practive for the WTBS to state if you want to be in harmony with Jehovah, THEN, you must follow the direction of his Slave.
But Spec, It's not the fact that they are imperfect men that bothers me. No one on this earth is perfect. What bothers me is that admittedly imperfect men <a group of about 10 men> Get together and vote on things that are going to effect millions of Jehovah's Witnesses lives, and these Jehovah's Witnesses, if they wish to remain a member in good standing must adhere to whatever *rules* these imperfect men come up with in their secret meetings. They vote! sometimes a change in doctrine or *new light* is opposed by almost half, but maybe theres a vote of one that allows it to pass. How many Jehovah's Witnesses needing organ transplants died in the span of time that the governing body declared that organ transplants were againt Gods law 'til the time that *new light* appeared and said it was ok again? That is just one example of the mercurial nature of the *governing body*
This religion has only been around for about a generation and a half <it just seems like an eternity> and in that time there have been so many examples of inaccuracies, back pedalling and changing of doctrine.
I cannot give this imperfect, vascillating group of men the blind, unquestioning devotion that they require! I'm not sure, but I'm almost postive that God, who is a God of order would use a little more stable method to administer his requirements to all of mankind.
Still searching for the truth
Eyes
"One Persons Heresy Is Anothers Truth"
