JWs rely on specific verses to avoid looking at their own doctrines in detail. So for example, Jesus quoting Psalms 'the meek shall inherit the earth' or 'let your will take place on earth as in heaven' and so on, point to a place for the earth in salvation. As they understand Christian belief is that we all go to heaven they can quote these verses to show Christians don't read their bible and then ignore any other problems they might raise with their doctrine. It's easier to tear down a belief than defend one, which is why asking questions to put them on the back foot is a better form of discussion than trying to convince them of new ideas.
I could do with some help please?
by chrisuk 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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chrisuk
Thanks you for the replies. The Searcher - I've copied and pasted your comments as well as a few others into a text file and saved it to my dropbox account so I can easily access it from my iPad when the elder comes back. He could come anytime now. If he doesn't come today, which I think he will. But if he doesn't he will come on Friday morning.
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gorgia2
chrisuk,
All the replies above will hopefully be very helpful to YOU, but please don't waste time and energy on this elder. Should he be open-minded enough to consider what he is promoting/protecting when he comes to see you may in fact be a complete lie, what you've already said is enough to get the cogs moving.
gorgia
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The Searcher
gorgia - We've got to give the elder the benefit of the doubt.
Many of us here had the exact same mindset at one time, and all it took was one niggly question which got us to probe deeper and find the TRUTH!
Mine was Romans 6:7 - after that, the floodgates opened!!
You never know, in 6 months from now the elder could be on here!!
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chrisuk
The elder didn't come today, He'll probably come on Friday now. Do you think it's a good or bad idea if I email him the information I have so far? there's no apostate sources so he can't just dismiss it.
Thanks again.
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jgnat
He might not come back, considering his job is even harder than yours. Wait for him. Make him sweat.
If you want some background on what he will say to you, "Reasoning from the Scriptures" will be his primary source.
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The Searcher
I'd let him come. Things written down may dissuade him from taking notice of your contentions, but in a face-to-face discussion, he's obliged to answer whatever Bible or doctrinal questions you ask him. (1 Peter 3:15)
Just keep in mind that your motive is to get HIM to think and question exactly what he's trying to convince people is the truth. You are not trying to destroy his faith in the Bible - only in the Org!!
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Aroq
I want to add something to all of this.
The partaking, this has helped me understand and prove that Jesus was not meaning to only the anotined. Straight from the Bible:
Starting at John 6:1-14 where Jesus is feeding the 5 thousand we see a large group of people (5,000 plus the disciples). In verse 15 Jesus withdrew until evening. After this the disciples were crossing the sea in and Jesus followed by walking on the water (verses 16-21).
This part is pretty simple and basic, but when we get to verse 22 thru 24 we see that the large group were still trying to follow Jesus. They find Him at verse 25. Now this group was said to be 5 thousand, but we can gather that not all of them went.
In verse 25, the growd asked Jesus " When did you get here?" Jesus goes on to answer them and talk with them. Jesus speaks about the bread they ate, and what "works" are works of God. Jesus continues to tell them of this bread in verse 32 that comes down from Heaven and how God provided for Moses and the Israelites. Then they said in verse 34"give us this bread". Jesus said He was this bread in verse35.
So who is asking for this bread? The crowd that were fed. This is a large group and were they baptized? Anointed? I think not, they were still learning from Jesus and seeking.
After Jesus told the crowd that He was the bread, the Jews heard of this and were grumbling (verse 41). They could not grasp how Jesus could be from heaven. They did not believe. They were not anointed. They were not baptized either. But Jesus spoke to them and told them about who He was and that He is the bread of life. Then the Jews began to argue (verse 52), and then this is where Jesus said verse 53 "...unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you hvae no life in yourselves."
So who did Jesus tell this to?
Read it, not from what I wrtoe here, but in the Bible itself. See for yourself who He was talking to.
I hope this helps.
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chrisuk
Yeah I'm going to wait for the elder to come back, thanks for the advice. Aroq - Thank you I'll look those verses up.
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Mary
@ Chrisuk: if you're not baptized, don't even waste your breath. Their goal is not to "make sure of all things", but merely to ensure that the sheeples are towing the party-line. They couldn't care less if you can prove your assertions from the bible alone. It all boils down to two questions: Do you believe that Jehovah is using the Witchtower Babel & Crap Society as His "mouthpiece"? And do you believe that the Slobbering Body members are "the Slave" through which He makes His word known?".
If you want the conversation to end real quick, just tell him you're in the middle of reading this and he'll run screaming out of your house never to be seen again:
