by FadeToBlack 16 Replies latest watchtower bible
Fade, sounds like your lady is open to reason vs a closed-minded JW Zombie.
When a JW has decided that it is OK for them to reason for themselves on the things that have been presented to them as gospel through the years, that's the first crack in the armor. The wedge of doubt has started to split things open. Go slowly. Baby steps.
Doc
Very good FTB! You have definitely planted some good seeds. She also seemed to take it pretty well. Proceed slowly.
So today we read Genesis 3-5. Some things we discussed:
1. Translation in Genesis 3:1 NWT and nNWT uses cautious. All others use something like crafty, subtle, cunning, shrewd.
2. Genesis 3:24 - sword? Adam would know what a sword was?
3. Genesis 4:17 - a city? Cain and Enoch started building a city?
4. Genesis 4:22: - forger of every sort of tool of copper and iron? This tied into our discussion of swords. Pretty sure Iron Age started much later in history.
5. Genesis 4:26. I asked her what that sounded like to her and then showed her how the WBATS explains it:
In the days of Enosh, almost four centuries before Enoch’s time, “a start was made of calling on the name of Jehovah.” (Genesis 4:26) The divine name had been used since the beginning of human history. Hence, what began when Enosh was alive evidently was not a calling on Jehovah in faith and pure worship. Some Hebrew scholars hold that Genesis 4:26 should read “began profanely” or “then profanation began.” Men may have applied Jehovah’s name to themselves or to other humans through whom they pretended to approach God in worship. Or perhaps they applied his name to idols.
6. Genesis 5:32 Why did Noah wait until he was 500 years old to have children?
That led to a separate discussion about how unlikely it is that anyone ever lived to the ages presented in chapter 5. I mentioned extremely long ages listed in the Sumerian King list and how people who study Sumerian history realize and admit something else was going on here. Either mistranslation or some other unkown purpose on part of later priests. I also mentioned that the WTBATS mocks the Sumerian King list as example of unreliable history.
Other themes:
1. Genesis 3:22. If they were kicked out of Eden before they could eat from the tree of life and live to time indefinite, doesn't that imply that they hadn't eaten from it yet and that they needed to eat from it to continue living? In other words, they were not created to live forever, but they could have if they would have if they had chosen the right tree.
2. More tree discussion. In Genesis 3:5, Satan promised that in the day of their eating from it, their eyes would be opened and they would know good and bad. Was it true? In Gen 3:22, before putting them out he said: Here he has become like one of us in knowing good and bad.
3. We got off into discussion god of OT vs god of NT when she brought up she never got this sacrifice thing. It always turned her off. Prompted by my mentioning Gen 4:4. What would cause someone to think that killing an animal and BBQing some of its organs would be pleasing to God (who created life).
4. What did the snake do to deserve any punishment? I thought it was just used like a ventriloquist uses a dummy/prop?
She ended up revealing that she is not really an OT type of person and prefers to focus on the good things Jesus taught. She did not know and doesn't care about 4026 or 2370.
I'm not sure how much farther we will make it thru the OT. I'd like to get thru at least Exodus. May need to alternate with weeks of reading in parallel from NT/Greek scriptures.
I'm just asking open-ended questions posing as an interested person that she met in the field service who was reading the bible and had some questions. I jokingly told her that
she needs to be careful, because she is getting close to being an apostate by having her own opinions about what the bible means.
Wow, she agrees more with the NT and Jesus! that is really pretty signifigant :)
However, she has to emotionally want to accept the WT can be and is incorrect. that's a whole other ballgame.
@nonjwspouse: That is why i am thankful that she revealed that she was always shocked by the practice of animal sacrifcice. Something to work with. I am just reading and asking questions. I realize she has to finally connect the dots.
I love that you are reading and asking questions with her. I too hope so very, very much her emotional wall will open enough to connect the dots.
She was very concerned that I would not survive the coming big A.
Tell her that you are very concerned about her not surviving the big A and when she asks why, make her watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?o=U&pi=2
or tell her that Armageddon is all about happiness and when she asks why, make her watch the video.
All it take is an investment of one hour to realize that Jehovah's Witnesses have fallen asleep!
Revelation 16:15-16
"Look! I am coming as a thief. Happy is the one that stays awake and keeps his outer garments, that he may not walk naked and people look upon his shamefulness." And they gathered them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Har–Ma·ged´on.
abe
