by new hope and happiness 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
NH&H
posters here yourself included seem to be " revered". May be a better word is " respected".
Cor, blimey gavnar. I dunno about that. I always just thought I was a run of the mill poster tbh. I don't think my posts are that great, just laces with irony is all.
but becomming a follower thats another thing...
Well, I guess there are the drivers and the passengers in life, ay
I find it very interesting that Ray Franz remained religious and continued to believe in the bible, God, and Christ. I have read COC but not ISOCF yet.
Personally I have been a member of two religious organisations in my life and being a part of another one is not my desire. I believe in God but have issue with the Bible and why God permits suffering.
I think Christ was a good man and very charasmatic in his day and left behind a lot for people to talk about.
Kate xx
Kate
I find it very interesting that Ray Franz remained religious and continued to believe in the bible, God, and Christ.
I wonder if he'd have had a different perspective back in the '80s if the internet was around then?
I think Christ was a good man and very charasmatic in his day and left behind a lot for people to talk about.
I used to....now I don't even believe he existed at least in the form we have come to see in popular xtianity. The evidence for Jesus actually existing doesn't seem to exist outside of the book of fairy tales Bible either. I admit it'd be nice if he did exist but...........nah!
Very interesting OP and conversation.
It's hard to unravel the God thing altogether.
It is one thing to throw over a lying destructive cult. And next you question all religion. and then question the experiences you have had and attributed to God. And THEN ask why the hell you believe in any of the cock-and-bull stories that have come down these past 6000+ years of other people's stories about god.
It is a weight to have to lift. I know of too many "miracles" that I had to allow that happen by chance. Not hearsay. but wonderful personal events. But I know that these things have also happened or not happened to others in a fashion so random that my own experience cannot be attributed to god. There is no reason for me to believe a loving god is so inconsiderate and inconsistent.
Illustration that helped me think:My sister has a pet box turtle she acquired when she opened her door in central Arkansas on New Years day--at the foot of the steps a wash of leaves with crusts of frost on them she saw a new hatched turtle, complete with a bump on its beak(egg "tooth"). I saw it with my own eyes afew days later.
No lies, no miracle, a strange event neverthe less. There had to be a series of natural events that made that turtle as amazing as Moses in the bulrushes.
And he ain't even a christian.
But I have no trouble with the scant evidence that a carpenter during the roman occupation of Judea broke out with a Pete Seeger message to the poor.
Religion serves good teachings a BAD TURN. Teachings are valuable when they build love and friendship. Bad teachings only make you followers. When teachings fail to help you become self-reflectively honest and loving then they are shams.
As for Ray--I love that Ray wrote what he did. I don't know quite how my religious friends will deal with me as my own understanding of god has changed.....
I'm listening to you, New Hope, Kate, Lucid, Punky....
They demonize you no matter what. I guess by just being a "Christian" and not joining another church it minimized the amount of criticism they could throw at him. But in the end they just DF any enemy of the state and it doesn't really matter to the rest of the troops.
Yeah, you're on to something, since if Ray Franz wanted to get revenge against those who pushed him out, what better way of doing so than offering the stepwise-approach to erode their membership, and not taking the path from JW to full-bore atheist? He seemingly wrote ISOCF exactly to make that point, to draw active JWs out.
Fact remains, we never really know what other people believe in their deepest thoughts, and that goes both ways, applying equally to those who claim to be believers or non-believers (and also to those who publicly claim to be agnostics: they may announce their indecision for very pragmatic reason of not wanting to experience the blowback if they came out of the closet, either way).
You mean there is a hierarchy of evil? I would have thought at the top of that ranked list would be belief in God not athiesm! People who embrace other religious beliefs - even their own - are religiously corrupt and adulterous whereas to ditch belief in God has the virtue of not being "foolish" in the eyes of believers.
Want to really screw with them, find Christ and become even more spiritual then you ever were as a JW. That really messes with their brains.
To clarify my post i think its a BIG thing for a J.W to think " you have chosen us from all the nations of the world, you have loved us" and thats why i think they prefer members to leave for " immorality" anything but keeping a faith in God but not the organisation.
Right, New Hope.
Until now my simple explanation for leaving the JWs was"I didn't leave because I DON'T believe in God, I left because I DO."
(A not-so -simple situation when you do not believe in the-bible-god any more.)
