Grounds for Disfellowshipping?

by eyes_opened 22 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  eyes_opened

  Hey all,

  I'm sure this topic has probably been covered before, but as I'm in this situation now I'm hoping maybe you can offer your thoughts.

  I'm just curious, what are actually grounds for disfellowshipping?
  I'm to the point where I no longer believe that Jehovah's Witnesses have the truth, but if at all possible I want to avoid the big *D* word, as most of my family and my husbands family are still Jehovahs Witnesses. The congregation where we are here <I have only been a handful of times since we moved here a year ago> Knows that something is up, and the elders/elders wives are coming 2 or 3 times a week to visit. My question is, can I tell them I don't want them coming by anymore, without it being a big deal....Or are they required by some elder law to dig deeper into my reasons for this request. And if they do dig deeper and I refuse to answer them, can they take some kind of action? The more I type here the madder I'm getting lol, it's really infuriating the control over peoples lives they have! If this isn't a cult I don't know what is. I feel like a spy trying to get across enemy lines without being discovered. Truly pathetic.
  If anyone has any experiences with a situation like this maybe you could offer your story, or suggestions.

  Thanks

  Eyes

  "One Persons Heresy Is Anothers Truth"

  Edited by - eyes_opened on 16 February 2001 2:12:9
• 

  Simon

  Hi eyes...sorry to hear you're going through this.
  We've been through a similar thing ourselves. I would recommend never talking to elders or their wives or telling anyone the doubts you have unless you trust them 110% and even then, some people will surprise you.
  The have 'scriptural grounds' but also 101 of their own justifications which basically amounts to 'disagreeing with them'.
  BTW: The elders wives probably call round because they like to think they are really important and can do what they like..."my husband is an elder".
  It really is one of the marks of a cult that you are not free to leave without sanction. They can't afford for people to be able to leave easily - everyone might do it !
  I wonder somtimes that you could have congregations full of people who would like to leave but none dare step out of line.
• 

  Scorpion

  eyes_opened,

  You are in a tough situation having family that are still in the organization. You are right, the control this cult has over someones life is terrible.

  It appears that to continue to have contact with your family that are still in the borg, you will have to play the game. Don't say anything negative about the WT.

  Grounds for Disfellowshipping? It depends on the person and who the person knows in the Congregation. Also how repentent one is (Kissing the elders butt). I have seen people disfellowshipped for smoking. On the other hand I knew of a few elders sons that were just reproved for drug use and getting drunk. The funny thing is, the elders sons continued getting drunk and never stopped taking drugs, mainly smoking dope.

  I know of a situation in my town where an individual was baptized around 1955. He stopped doing all the things a good JW does around 1968. He became a member of the Methodist church around 1980 and still is a member to this day. The JWs use his services regularly and talk to him as a friend even though they know the situation. He is an attorney, my Uncle. Yep, my Uncle. Now my situation is much different. I spoke out against the WT and much of the lies and so forth that went on in my congregation. You have to remember that there is not much room for REAL TRUTH in the WT. I am labled an evil apostate, demon possesed and all that fobic stuff to keep the rank and file away from me.

  So if you want to remain having contact with your JW family, don't tell them you know the truth about the "truth".
• 

  Roamingfeline

  Hello Eyes,

  Somewhere on the board Simon posted the link to the Elders Flock book. In it are the "legal", so to speak, grounds for DF'ing a member.

  But keep in mind, when the elders wives are coming over all the time, they're already suspecting something, and you can bet every little thing you do is being watched. So be careful.

  Good luck,
  RCat
• 

  Latte

  eyes,

  Could you please check your e-mails.

  Hope that it worked.

  Latte
• 

  Pathofthorns

  Hello Eyes.

  Some good suggestions, especially Simon's. Try to get past the need to explain your reasons for your non involvement. Tell them you are just taking a break for a while and need some space. You don't owe anyone an explanation beyond this and you can't be disfellowshipped as long as you don't commit anything they term as a disfellowshipping offence.

  Keeping your mouth shut is the hardest thing to do sometimes, especially when they are good at prying. Remember, you owe NO ONE an explaination for anything. This is YOUR PRIVATE business and feel free to tell them so.

  As was suggested, NEVER meet with the elders, especially two at the same time. There is nothing positive to this and there exists everything to lose.

  The elder's wives could be genuinely concerned for you. Sometimes there are genuine people. But more likely they have been ASSIGNED to visit you and they can get an easy HOUR CREDIT to use on their Field Service Report slips.

  Best of luck. Eventually they do leave you alone. But in the meantime, just be nice and don't tell them anything.

  Path
• 

  Frenchy

  Dear Eyes:
  What are actually grounds for disfellowshipping?
  Basically it's immorality (includes gambling which is termed greed for this purpose), a blood transfusion, political activity, joining one of the armed services, marrying without a ‘scriptural' divorce, drug and tobacco abuse, and apostasy (which includes but is not limited to: association with DF'd or DA'd persons; any active participation or individual act of worship within any other religion. -- For example you can attend an unbelieving relative's church wedding but if you light one candle in the process it is construed as an act of worship and you will be held accountable for it if discovered–; actively promoting ideas that run contrary to the teachings of the ‘Faithful Slave') Keep in mind that if someone is guilty of any of the above and demonstrates repentance then DF'ing is not in order. You are then either privately or publicly reproved and put on restrictions. You have the right to an appeal. If you don't like the decision of the appeal committee you have the undocumented right to write to the Society and tell them your story. (They are instructed not to inform you of this last appeal provision but it exists and the Society will read your letter and may act on it if they feel that procedure was not followed.)
  Becoming inactive by not attending meetings or going out in service is not grounds for DF'ing or DA'ing. Not being an elder or a pioneer or an elder's wife is a big plus in that you are in a low profile situation. That being the case, unless someone in ‘high places' has a vendetta against you, or if you are very vocal about your doubts, it's unlikely that they will come for you with the noose.
  My question is, can I tell them I don't want them coming by anymore, without it being a big deal....Or are they required by some elder law to dig deeper into my reasons for this request.
  Make no mistake, they are digging. Telling them outright not to come back will deepen their suspicions. Elders are admonished to make shepherding calls especially on the ‘weak'. What they are doing may simply be out of genuine concern for what they see as your weak spiritual state. On the other hand others move in when they smell blood in the water. Not knowing your congregation or the circumstances makes it impossible to evaluate the situation accurately. SUGGESTION: Play the game. It's usually the lesser of the two evils. If you don't want to talk to those sisters then don't answer the door or excuse yourself and tell them you are busy or leaving to do some errands. If they call to make an appointment have something else to do for that time. Path is right in that you should not meet with them if at all possible. But now what will your husband tell them if they question him?
  And if they do dig deeper and I refuse to answer them, can they take some kind of action?
  It depends on what they can find if they go deeper. If they have two witnesses to your expressing negative thoughts about the Society they have the grounds for DF'ing you. Especially now with the witch hunt going on to purge the organization of apostates. I don't know you or your personality so the following advice may or may not be appropriate for you. If you are a person that can take the pressure and think on her feet and they come to you with accusations that others have made against you then I would tell them to have their two witnesses at the Judicial Committee Meeting when they confront you with the charges. I would also tell them that I want my husband, as the head of the house, to be present with me during the meeting. They cannot justly deny you this. I would make the witnesses face me as they make the accusations. This will discourage all but the most hardy/fanatical. I would ask them time and again for my exact words and expressions and ask them over and over again if there is no room for their having misunderstood what I really said. I would continue to say: "I know what I said, brother/sister, are you sure without the shadow of a doubt that you are not unjustly accusing me?"
  Like I said, I don't know if you can do this. Without your presence to defend yourself against ‘witnesses' they pretty much have a clear road to do what they want to do. I would make them work for it.
  There is, however, as I mentioned above the possibility that it will never get to this. They could just be trying to ‘bring you back into the flock'.
  Keep cool, Sis.

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  eyes_opened

  Thanks for your suggestions all. I think maybe I will try telling them that I need a break for a while, and see how that goes...That seems like a way to make them take it easy on me, with it seeming like *my fault* and not theirs. Perhaps that might assuage their need to *help* me Just checked my email Latte...got it! Thanks

  Thanks again for your help gang.

  Eyes

  "One Persons Heresy Is Anothers Truth"
• 

  somebody

  eyes_opened, ( great picture! ) :-)

  I'm TRULY sorry for your situation. It's so haertbreaking for you to have to risk losing family if you don't obey all the rules dictated to you by the elders, which are dictated to them by a publishing company. I don't understand how things got this bad. I know by your reply to my "WHY?!" post that you understand what's going on, and I understand what you must be going through. I feel empathy for you. Please try and stay strong. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. I pray everything turns out well and that you don't lose the love of any of your family members. I don't know how I'd cope in a situation like yours, so I really can't give any advice on what to do.

  peace and God bless you,
  somebody
• 

  JT

  Simon says

  BTW: The elders wives probably call round because they like to think they are really important and can do what they like..."my husband is an elder".

  *****

  while this maybe true in many cases - we were told at elders school by a number of instructors CO, DO as well as the bethel instructor

  that your best source of INFO is your wife- and i will admit any times the body of elders were the last to know, but our wives were johnny on the spot with the HOT AND JUCICY NEWS

  many times elders will tell thier wives and i know we did in our hall

  to stop by and see how sister so and so is doing

  SINCE MANY jw view any visit by an elder as OFFICIAL- THEY are in fear

  i recall trying to setup reg old sheparding calls and the poor jw would ask "WHAT DID I DO" this mindset is very commom esp if the congo is not one where the elders take any interest beyond
  I NEED YOUR TIME FOR THE MONTH

  but i agreee with you 110% NEVER TALK TO ELDERS OR ANYONE ELSE about your doubts unless you are completely prepared for the complete FALL OUT that can and often times result from just sharing HOW YOU REALLY FEEL as it were

  excellent advice-

  since being on the net i have personally spoken on the phone with so many "Old time apostates" who left PRE-Net days

  who only WISH they could have done what this dear sister did GET ADVICE ON HOW TO LEAVE WT

  this is why i love this NET "thang"

  SMILE

  JUST MY 2

  jt