for DrivesLikeJehu - Child Baptism

Prisca

DLJ

What I think Mommy/Wendy (her real name) is getting at is this :

Getting married is a serious decision that will affect you for the rest of your life. It involves great responsibility, sacrifices, and how you behave as a married person will affect others in your life as well. If you believe marriage is for life, choosing a marriage partner is probably one of the greatest decisions you will ever make in your life. It will be more important than what job you have, where you live, or how much money you make.

Getting baptised covers much the same responsibilities. Once you are baptised, you are treated more seriously. Greater responsibility is expected of you. If you are not baptised but commit a sin, you are not shunned or criticised the same way, are you? You are also expected to be able to make decisions and accept responsibility for those decisions you make, based on how you interpret what the Society says about issues. I don't think I need to go into all the ins and outs of the expectations and responsibilities that go with being a baptised Witness for you DLJ as you have been raised as a JW just as I was.

Now, would we expect a child of 12 to fully appreciate the responsibilities and expectations of a married person?

If the answer is no, then why believe a child of 12 to fully appreciate the responsibilities and expectations of a baptised person?

And I am not saying baptism is a bad thing.

But it is not fair nor morally feasible to "encourage" a child to baptism any more than we would expect s/he to chose a life-long marriage partner at that stage in life too.

mommy

Prisca,
That is exactly what I was trying to say
And I am sorry I posted over at that thread, it is for newbies. So DLJ if you will, we can continue over here
Let me finish my coffee and I will come back.
wendy

mommy

DLJ,
First I would like to say that financially you don't have any responsibilities when you are baptized. I was using that as an example to show you how HUGE a commitment is. The older you get you will realize that this is the first thing you consider before you make any decisions in your life.
Also I am glad you didn't follow the life your "friends" did by going to jail. But you must know more than 2 people, so all the other young ones you know were protected by baptism as well? And if they weren't baptized and still remained "clean", what do you think kept them this way?
I guess my real point is you made a lifelong commitment to an organization, and to God, and even if you leave the org you don't have to leave God. But sometimes people get the two confused. I am very happy for you that you have remained strong in your beliefs, and continue to do so. But it has been tough hasn't it?
You are more than welcome to come here and talk anytime you want, this shows an open mind. I am also happy your parents allowed you to go to college. What is your major?
wendy

DriveslikeJehu

Arrrgh! I'm being double teamed!hehe Wow, I'm glad I scrolled down farther today. I wouldn't have seen this thread!hehe
I understand what you two are getting at now. The funny thing is, my parents didn't really do much to pressure me to get baptized. They didn't bug me with 'Everyone else your age is getting dunked, why don't you?' They were really good about that. It was more of 'When you think you're ready to get baptized...' I will admit that looking back, I prolly was a bit young to get baptized. That's why I didn't bug my friends about it either. When they're ready to dedicate themselves to Jehovah(not the organization), they're ready. No one else can decide it for them.
I wasn't saying that baptism helped keep me out of trouble, I meant that Bible principles helped me. I have some friends in my hall that aren't baptized, and they stay out of trouble the same way.
It's tough to be a Witness, Mommy, I agree with you. But IMHO, it's more than worth it. I just don't see anything worth having outside of Jehovah's organization(there's me sounding hollow again!). Btw, I'm in school for computer info systems. I'm almost a junior.

Prisca

DLJ,

Thanks for your reply and I appreciate where you're coming from too. I agree that following Bible principles do keep you out of trouble, and I don't regret that part of my life either.

I'm glad you're on this board and look forward to more of your comments.

Simon

I think you can be pressured to get baptised even without anyone saying anything directly to you. The literature and assemblies and whole 'go door to door' thing is all about this aim so it's impossible for it not to get into your head as 'the thing you should be doing'.
I know that is what happened to me. Of course, being under 18 you are not legally able to decide to join an organisation so I think that there is a valid claim that such baptisms are null and void (and hence, no DF'ing possible). Just a thought!

Anthony

Being born again of the spirit is the most wonderful experience a Man or a Women can have - in my opinion. I was 24 when I was Christened at my Local Church, and I definitly felt something!.

Life's not all a bed of roses once you recieve Jesus into your heart, and this is because people expect Christians to be happy "All the time". I've had my ups and downs, but as S.T Paul says, we must not look back - but move forward - putting the old behind us.

Anthony

John 3:16

thinker

Prisca,
You have discovered an interesting aspect of baptism. Namely, can a minor make an informed decision concerning joining the WTBTS? I found an interesting quote from the Society which seems to say "No".
"As regards the alleged involvement of children, the [WatchTower Bible and tract Society] submits that children cannot become members of the association but only participate, together with their parents, in the religious activities of the community."
{Sworn testimony submitted by the Society in evidence before the European Human Rights Commission Jul 3 1997}
In legal terms, minors cannot make "informed consent"; so the baptism of a minor has no meaning at all (if you believe the above spokesman was telling the truth). The quote above seems to say that a baptism is not legally in effect until the baptised person reaches the age of adulthood.

thinker

mommy

DLJ,
Computer software is a good field. Thanks for answering the post, I hope you don't feel like we were double teaming you. I just have a soft spot for that subject. I am with Simon, you can be pressured into it even if no verbal words are spoken from your parents.
Simon,
That is a interesting point. Do you think it can help the inactive jws from being dfd?
wendy

alias

I was baptized at 16. At the time I really thought I knew what I was doing and what it all meant. The "truth" was all I knew. What else was there? I suppose many kids think the same.

By time I was 25, I started really questioning life, JW's, and everything else. Why was I doing everything the way JW's taught me to? I realized that when I was 16, I did what was naturally expected of all JW youth. How many WT study articles and assembly parts exalted young baptized JW's who dedicated their lives and were baptized? "Young brother or sister pioneer is such a great example to all of us!" If you didn't do that, you were doomed to dying at armageddon because you "knew better".

At 16 I should have been living my childhood. Not mirroring "mature" adults. I wasn't one. I had to grow up first. Baptized JW kids aren't grown up, no matter how mature they seem. When they leave home and live as a fully functioning adults in the world, making their own decisions without the parents attached to their side is when I think they are ready to make such a decision about their life (baptism). Wasn't Jesus 30 when he did?

for DrivesLikeJehu - Child Baptism

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