Incomplete quote,, does it make any difference?

by jonahstourguide 11 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  jonahstourguide

  In the Dec 15 2013 study article page 19 paragraph 10 a Professor Jonathan Klawans is quoted.

  I found the original quote here:

  Exodus 12 commands the Israelites to repeat this practice every year, performing the sacrifice during the day and then consuming it after the sun has set. (According to Jewish tradition, the new day begins with the setting of the sun, so the sacrifice is made on the 14th but the beginning of Passover and the meal are actually on the 15th, although this sequence of dates is not specified in Exodus.) Exodus 12 further speaks of a seven-day festival, which begins when the sacrifice is consumed (Exodus 12:15).

  and the second statement here :

  Passover Seder brings us back to the time immediately following the Roman destruction of the Temple in 70 C.E.12 It’s not that rabbinic literature cannot be trusted to tell us about history in the first century of the Common Era. It’s that rabbinic literature—in the case of the Seder—does not even claim to be telling us how the Seder was performed before the destruction of the Temple. 12

  As I understand the full article of jonathan Klawans, he doesnt believe that the "lords supper" was in fact a "seder"

  What caught my eye was the omission of his reference that "according to jewish tradition",,,,, it triggered my brain to a quote in the wt of october 15 2013

  page 28 paragraph 9 where the wt speaks of Jewish tradition in a derogative way in reference to not using gods name " We can be sure that Jesus firmly

  rejected such an unscriptural tradition"

  So, as I read it, and I may well be wrong, it's ok to quote tradition if it supports the argument, but just not say that we are.

  I cant post the link to the site from where I copied the quote. its :biblicalarcheology.org and the subject was "was jesus last supper a seder"

  jtg

  Edited underlined the actual quote from where the wt sourced their quote

  And I do understand that the seder is a part of passover that is performed on the first and or second day of passover.

  My point is, I am finding it increasingly difficult to believe any "quote" inserted in the wt. Another case in point was the Albert Barnes quote last week.

  jtg
• 

  sir82

  Double standards & selected quote mining from the WTS writing department?

  I am shocked - shocked!
• 

  Earnest

  The link to the site of the the quote is "was jesus last supper a seder"
• 

  LostGeneration

  I'm not sure what point the WT is trying to make, nor do I want to waste brainpower trying to figure it out. I'd recommend sending the quote to to the Professor and simply asking if it was used correctly, usually you can dig up an email address on the internet without much trouble.

  I did this on a quote a few years back where and received a lengthy response on my question, thought the professor didn't have an issue with how his writing was quoted.
• 

  LogCon

  Does an incomplete quote make any difference?

  So it appears.

  “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about …………………...”
  ― Albert Einstein

  “A room without books is like a body without a ……..”
  ― Cicero

  “In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it ………….”
  ― Robert Frost

  “No one can make you feel inferior without ………...”
  ― Eleanor Roosevelt, This is My Story

  “If you tell the truth, you don't have to………………..”
  ― Mark Twain

  “A friend is someone who knows all about you and …………….”
  ― Elbert Hubbard

  “Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to …………...”
  ― Mahatma Gandhi

  “I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget ………………...”
  ― Maya Angelou

  “Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only ……………….”

  Martin Luther King Jr.

  “Without music, life would be………...”
  ― Friedrich Nietzsche,

  “To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is …………………………….”
  ― Ralph Waldo Emerson
• 

  smiddy

  Incomplete quote,, does it make any difference?

  Doesnt incomplete quotes more often than not change the gist of what the writer,author,speaker , is trying to convey ?

  In other words giving the impression they said something they hadn`t intended ?

  A couple of examples come to mind :

  Carl Sagan`s quote was taken out of context in the book "Life How Did It Get Here By Evolution Or Creation " published by the Watchtower.

  In Carl Sagan`s book Brocas Brain he gives them a serve .( a pity I thought that he didnt actually identify them by name , however the description clearly points to jehovahs witnesses )

  and also if I remember correctly an authourity ( I cant remember his name ) on John !:! The Watchtower quoted him out of context insinuating he held the same view as the jehovahs witnesses , which was not true , and which he later took them to task.

  smiddy
• 

  Phizzy

  The 2010 (?) Brochure on the origin of Life has acouple of blatant mis-quotes. One is from a Dr Carol Cleland talking about Abiogenesis if I remember, and the brochure makes it sound as though she doubts it happened, but the truth is she has gone on record as saying:

  “ It is clear that scientists know how many of the most basic building blocks of life are made under natural conditions”

  She adds, regarding the selective quote in the brochure:

  “My work has been used before by these people and it really angers me because they are using it to defend views that I reject….. it is deeply dishonest for theists to deliberately distort the words of scholars for their own purposes; as I recall , this is a sin”.

  The brochure on page 24 quotes Henry Gee as though he casts doubt on the fossil record with his saying, in part, “The intervals of time that separate the fossils are so huge that we cannot say anything definite about their possible connection through ancestry or descent”

  Studying the original quote in context we find that Henry Gee is not talking generally about the fossil record, but about two distinct fossils ,both Giant Civits, that lived a million years apart, this is blatant dishonest quoting.
• 

  Oubliette

  Absent a clear and unequivocal admission of intent to deceive from the writers of the WTBTS we can only speculate on their motives for quotes that are used in ways that appear to be dishonest distortions of the original author's intent.

  However, since we have such abundant evidence of quotes taken out of context and used in ways clearly contrary to what the author meant, I believe we can safely conclude one of two things:

  1. Either the writers of the WT publications are complete idiots and didn't understand what the author actually meant and so the WT's misapplication was unintentional, or
  2. The WT writers are dishonest, hypocritical liars.

  Oh, I guess we can also conclude one more thing: Holy Spirit ain't got nothin' to do with it!

  It's a cult!
• 

  humbled

  Oubliette,

  Your points above are clear-cut assessments. Either option damns the operation of Holy Spirit.

  When I first sensed something of the same I couldn't understand it so well as you have put it here. My feeling of doubt began when I pondered a troubling OT episode that I had researched and wanted their considered opinion of it.

  I knew a faithful old pioneer sister whose son was still on the writing commitee. I brought up my concern to her. She said casually--"Next time ____ calls, I will ask him about it."

  Something didn't set right with me on this. But some weeks later she told me "I talked to _____ yesterday and he said that there was nothing about such-and-such in the literature."

  And then it struck me that the swift-moving chariot was run by these human computer-bots. These questions or points that are submitted to the FaithfulDiscreetSlave are never examined by the Holy Spirit/God's channel. It was very, very troubling to me then.

  This thread fleshes out the inherent flaws of the development of the literature.

  Bad tree, bad fruit.
• 

  jonahstourguide

  Thanks for your comments folks. Its what you would expect, quote the authority in context and let the

  authority speak rather than structuring a quote to suit a different position. I actually had a disagreement with a local elder

  regarding the john 1;1 quote. I think the scholars name was George Howard. An attempt was then made to "caution" me!!!

  I guess thats why we're told we don't need to research coz da gb duz it for us.

  Not a good practise as I see it.

  jtg