R U disfellowshipped 2

by DFshipped 41 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  SixofNine

  Funny this should come up. I just recieved the latest issue of the WT yesterday. It seems that in situations such as this, the society has a new procedure akin to RE-disfellowshipping disfellowshipped people who do not 'toe the line', as it were. I believe they called it "marked for life" or "marked for destruction", something like that.

  The specific scenario mentioned was where two (or more) df'd people began brazenly associating with one another. The elders are advised of certain 'privileges' that could be further removed (even resorting to civil action if need be, ie; drivers license suspension, revocation of family ties, etc.) and in some countries, it seems that actual physical punishment may be warranted and used! Singapore comes to mind.

  Unbelievable isn't it?
• 

  larc

  Six,

  That is interesting. I could see where they would want to take further action if disfellowshiped people were organizing to foment trouble, but that is not DF's intent. He's looking for people that can help each other get back into the Oganization.

  One thing you said struck me as peculiar. How could they get your driver's license revocted?
• 

  SixofNine

  I could see where they would want to take further action if disfellowshiped people were organizing to foment trouble, but that is not DF's intent. He's looking for people that can help each other get back into the Oganization.

  That may well be his intentions, but remember, people are df'd for being willful, unrepentant sinners, nothing else. I repeat, NOTHING else. There is no such thing as a df'ing offence, only repentence or the lack thereof is reason for judicial decisions. So, if someone wants to re-enter the congregation, engaging in purposefully bad association is NOT ever going to be appropriate. After all, how would the elders be told to view a cong member who knowingly hangs out with df'd persons?

  As far as the drivers license thing goes, don't quote me on this, but I think that.....uhhmmm.....

  damn! see this is where my stories always fall apart. For the life of me I can't make up anything that would sound even remotely reasonable.

  oh well, had you going for a minute there didn't I?

  Edited by - SixofNine on 18 February 2001 21:31:14
• 

  waiting

  Hello DFshipped,

  Nice to meet you. I find the idea of df'd persons looking for like ones to make sense. You've been thrown out of an organ. which you loved for, as sixofseven said, unrepentance - or the neighbors found out.

  My daughter was df'd about 6/8 years ago at age of 21. Was properly shunned by everyone except her immediate family. Another young woman was finally (after 2 years) caught with proof that she had been having sexual intercourse all during that time - and consistently lying to the elders all during that time (several meetings had been held with her during that time). She and my daughter were approx. 25 yrs old at this time.

  Well, after the proof was presented during her committee meetings (she had been df'd previously for immorality), she called my daughter to suggest they have lunch soon. You see, she fully expected to be df'd for her immorality, thus it would be nice to have a friend waiting on the outside to have lunch. Of course, she wouldn't even look at my daughter for the previous 5 years.

  My daughter thanked her, but called me a couple of weeks later to see if any df announcements were made. I said no. She couldn't believe it - anykind of discipline????? I remembered the sister, said she had been publicly reproved. She couldn't believe it - this woman had told her the entire story of various men during the two years. After being df'd once, she talked her way out of it again.

  Of course, she didn't need to have lunch with my df'd daughter now - she could have lunch with real Christians.

  So, if someone wants to re-enter the congregation, engaging in purposefully bad association is NOT ever going to be appropriate. After all, how would the elders be told to view a cong member who knowingly hangs out with df'd persons?

  This is not meant to stumble you, it's meant to ask what your intentions truly are? If they're to get back into the organ., then you should be alone, depressed, sorrowful, and making your repentence shown to the elders - not making friends with bad association - df'd or not.

  I don't think we make judgement calls rigidly here, only have association on a free basis with all kinds of people.

  Welcome.

  waiting

  Edited by - waiting on 18 February 2001 22:44:16
• 

  DFshipped

  Hello Larc
  My understanding is similar you yours. I may be wrong( it's been known to happen lol ) but I think you are right on this one.
  Greetings Mommy-dearest, even though we seem to differ remarkably in our view of the organization I appreciate your views and your support.

  Um to be quite honest what everyone is saying here is making me think.
  I mean I arrived here with no intention of decieving anyone, I dont know who is and who is not df'd or "bad association" I will keep communicating with those I feel are not trying to undermine my pursuit and ignore those that do. We all share that right and priveledge.
  Hi Sixofnine
  By labeling myself as I did and SPECIFICALLY spelling out my request I was not inviting what you call "purposefully bad association" to make contact.
  Waiting
  That sounds like a real horror story, and the said thing is that it may well be 100% fact. These things can and do happen right inside the organization. But just a thought you may wish to keep in mind :
  These things have always happened ( by permission ) in Jehovahs organization.......King David....adultery, murder....disobeience
  Priest Eli allowing immorality in the temple
  Beautiful Angel decieved Eve and remained in association for 1000's of years before being ousted.
  Even Noah did some stuff that is biblicaly condemned. But he had the only ark in the parking lot, so his wrongdoing did not alter the life-sustaining provision of that ark.

  Finally let me relate this for you. I was communicating regularly with a df'd person. We encouraged each other over the months. She was reinstated, and wrote me to say good-bye until it is my turn. My heart bursts with happiness for that dear sister. I do not expect her to contact me again while I am df'd. We both knew the way things work, and I know she thinks about me, she knows I think about her.
  That alone is an encouragement for me. And I would feel honored to think that maybe I contributed to any degree in helping her get where she wants to be.

  So to those who support me, Thank you. I suppport your right to suppport me, and to those who dont support me, I also support your right not to support me. ( Try saying that fast 3 times :)
• 

  SixofNine

  Well DF, aren't all df'd persons bad association?

  I was really just yanking your chain in this thread. I don't believe the organization really has any authority over you or anyone else beyond what you worshipfully give them. I don't worship at that alter anymore, and while I know you will argue that you don't either, I know I left because I could see that I did.

  However, I am far past that now, and that raises another question for me. I'm not being at all flippant here, I really am struggling with this a bit. When you list all those bad things that happened under the nose of Jehovah, and even indicated that he gave "permission" (I know you probably did not really mean "permission", but you did say it), doesn't it give you pause as to why you believe the bible is inspired of Jehovah in the first place?

  I'm very serious here. For me, I wasn't able to answer much beyond "just because". As if it is God's word just because my mommy and daddy and everyone I have really had any meaningful contact with in my life believe it to be so. But a 34 year old man in China would not answer the same.

  So now, I have been searching for a reason to believe the Bible, odd as that sounds, even to my ears. The societies publications and video that talk about it, basically give evidence from the bible itself, ie, the bible says it is inspired- and we all believe it, so you should to.

  That was good enough for me for a long time, but the truth is I just didn't let myself think deeply about it.

  So really, I am curious, what do you think about it. Answer me via e-mail if you are not comfortable answering here. Thanks for your thoughts.
• 

  battman

  Warning!! for grown-ups only!! hard work ahead!!

  What is "The" truth, what is "The Truth" and what is truth? As the
  "lite" keeps getting brighter then we/they/whomever must be getting
  closer to the truth. If that is so then we do not have the complete truth yet. If it is not complete then how can it be the truth.

  Forbes ASAP magazine Big Issue V of September 2, 2000 was devoted to
  the topic "What is True? This was very challenging to read and then
  comprehend for me. Several articles I had to read more than once to
  to even begin to understand "Truth". From a scientic method based in
  logic and inductive reasoning it is quite possible to separate the
  chaff from fact.

  Also by searching on the web for "rhetoric fallacy faq" there is a
  wealth of information on time tested logical methods to try to
  determine what is true and what is a "sales pitch". You will have to
  think but isn't that what we were designed to do? Enjoy the adventure

  battman
• 

  battman

  After tons of research maybe you could help me with a troubling question about the "organization"? When Isreal was split into
  two kingdoms, even warring with each other, which one represented
  the "organization"? Follow up question: who represented the
  organization between 70AD and 1874AD, which according to CT Russell
  marked the return/presence of Christ? see Studies in the Scriptures
  by CT Russell.

  Thanks.

  battman
• 

  CurlyQT

  Hello Everyone!! ;)
  I just have to say that you are all awesome!!! ;)
  It's amazing to actually talk to so many people who have come from similar backgrounds and have such different perceptions and yet we are all gathered here in one place! ;)

  First of all... Batmann, you are hilarious...
  I too have studied the definition of "TRUTH". Anyone that can explain that fully to me... well go ahead because I have been searching for the meaning of that for a couple of years now and the only conclusion I have come up with on it is that each person's Truth is different from everyone elses in this world. Not two people think the same way or have the exact same outlook as another about everything. Not even in the Organization. Therefore, the only truth that exists is in the fact that truth is completely relative to the person who is perceiving truth. Which brings me to my point. DF... since you are actively pursuing reinstatement, then your truth matches within the confines of the Jehovah's Witness religion! :) And you know what? If that is the case then you follow it... follow it and learn all you can through it! :) Because that is truly where you belong and it will help you learn what you need to learn. I think it's awesome that you are pursuing something that you have faith in. My only advice is this, make sure that in choosing your path that you don't forget that there is so much on this earth that can provide a learning experience to you. Don't shut your eyes to that one possibility. No matter what path you choose. :) That in mind... I wish you the best.

  On the topic regarding disfellowshipped ones having association to one another. The one thing that I have noticed even with myself is that even though some of us are no longer in the religion, we still follow the "Principles" and "Regulations" for disfelloshipped persons. In fact, I have caught myself passing another df'd person in a grocery store and what not, and passed them up reminding myself (unconsciously) that I should not be associating with them. But the funny thing is... we're not in the religion anymore so what can they do? My fiance' actually called me on that when I was upset about not being able to contact my family. He finally hit me with the thought, OH YEAH, I DON'T HAVE TO PLAY BY THEIR RULES ANYMORE! Not that I don't respect them. To this day I have not had contact with anyone from the religion. I do respect their beliefs and their choices that they have made.
  Being a former PO's Daughter, I was very clear on the way that disfelloshipped ones are to act. I don't know if it has changed but while I was still active and going through my own ordeal, as long as I didn't admit anything, or actually make the effort to go forth and have a meeting with the elders, then there was absolutely nothing that they could do. They cannot disfellowship you to disfellowship you. They have to have a meeting with you to confirm either the things they have heard by other members or, to actually confront you personally on things. My sister is going through this right now. It's kind of comical... she's been chased in a car by the elders, continually called and visited... and she refuses to attend a judicial meeting. I think she is just sick of the whole thing.

  As far as disfellowshipped people having association with one another, the only reason that this would be a "RULE" to follow is if you are actively pursuing reinstatement. Obviously if you went back and met with the brothers and told them that you still had contact with disfellowshipped ones, most judicial commitees would frown on that and most of the time they would not reinstate you under those circumstances. However, if you aren't looking to go back to the organization then what does it matter if you associate with another disfellowshipped person... because at that point, they are only a person... without title... just a human being... no limitations on them... nothing hanging over their head telling them what they can and cannot do as a "Disfellowshipped" person. They can tell you until they are blue in the face that you shouldn't have contact with another DF'd person but in reality, they don't have any power over you at all. So anyways... (wow I feel like that was a little long winded).
  It's cool to be talking with you all... brings back so many memories. :) And with that, I'm off... it's five and I don't want to spend another minute at this desk. So with that I bid you all a good night!

  G
• 

  mommy

  DFshipped,
  I appreciate your reply to that.
  Larc,
  I am so sorry about your mother, how sad she was able to feel it was "ok" to converse with you only after she had been disfellowshipped. And you yourself were not even dfd! My own mother was trying to explain to me why she should not associate with me, I will share a little with you. I told her my children come first before anything else in my life, even my own needs. And I was unable to understand that I am her own flesh and blood and am not even in bad standing in org, but she still won't speak to me. I told her if my son was a murderer I would still have it in my heart to talk with him, and at least try to find out where his heart is at. Her remark to that..."If he had already killed 11 people and was walking out the door to kill his 12th, would you really share a meal with him?"
  I think you know me good enough Larc as to my response to that! After I cried I asked her "How I live my life is not at all to be likened to a murderer! No I don't attend KH, so this puts me in the same company?" It is unbelievable how people can shut out their heart and feelings and keep their mind closed all for the sake of their religion. Sorry to blow off here but "here" is the best place I foundHere and your wifes shoulder.
  Thanks for listening.
  wendy