New Watchtower Article: "Morals Without God?"

by cognisonance 15 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  cognisonance

  ...or rather what you wouldn't find in a watchtower :

  Morals Without God (New York Times Article)

  Can we envision a world without God? Would this world be good? Don’t think for one moment that the current battle lines between biology and fundamentalist Christianity turn around evidence. One has to be pretty immune to data to doubt evolution, which is why books and documentaries aimed at convincing the skeptics are a waste of effort. They are helpful for those prepared to listen, but fail to reach their target audience. The debate is less about the truth than about how to handle it. For those who believe that morality comes straight from God the creator, acceptance of evolution would open a moral abyss.
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  Separation of Powers

  Yeah, don't recall ever reading this in a JW publication.

  "You need God SO you need us" has always been the WT creed.
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  whathappened

  We were told at the Kingdom Hall that those who didn't believe in God just don't want to answer to anyone for their immoral behavior.
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  cofty

  For those who believe that morality comes straight from God the creator, acceptance of evolution would open a moral abyss.

  Evolution is not synonymous with atheism. All informed and intellectually honest people accept the fact of evolution whether they believe in god or not.
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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  We were told at the Kingdom Hall that those who didn't believe in God just don't want to answer to anyone for their immoral behavior

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  "The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don’t like that statement, but few can argue with it." -- Carl Sagan

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  Atheists and the non-religious are moral because they want to be; the religious are "moral" only because they have to be:

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  "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." -Albert Einstein
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  Apognophos

  Atheists and the non-religious are moral because they want to be; the religious are "moral" only because they have to be

  People are generally about as moral as they want to be, regardless of their belief system. Religious people often seek out a religion that agrees with them, thus they are choosing to be moral according to that religion's rules. If you believe that 'God was created in man's image', then you shouldn't be able to also believe that atheists have a moral superiority to the religious.

  Of course religious people are also shaped by the culture they grew up in, e.g. a Westerner is probably going to be taught Christian values from a young age. But this is true for someone growing up in an atheist household too; his parents might bring him up to be conscientious and humble, or to be selfish and haughty, regardless of what religion they claim to be.

  It's true that a religious person thinks that his morals are coming from somewhere outside himself. He credits his god with giving him those values to live by. The atheist, on the other hand, imagines that he decided on his own morals. They're both wrong.
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  Vidiot

  That NYT piece is good, but once again, the mainstream media misses the point with regards to creationists.

  Despite what some may say, creationists don't reject evolution because they feel it's inherently atheistic and therefore morally bereft, or because they think evolution is scientifically unsound.

  They reject evolution because the fundamental aspects of their theology and ideology essentially requires the Eden narrative in Genesis to be literal history (which is virtually impossible if humanity exists as a result of evolution).
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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Apog: People are generally about as moral as they want to be, regardless of their belief system

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  That's the point I was making...and as Einstein said, a religion is not necessary. If a person seeks a religious belief system that agrees with personal morals that person already believes, then the religion is doing nothing more than propping them up. It is not 'making' them moral as WT claims....

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  I have had many conversations over the years with JWs who say, "if I were not a JW, I'd be doing [fill in the blank]". In other words, fear of punishment from god, the elders, etc. is restraining who they really are, but if given the chance to do what they want (with no punishment), they'd not be living a moral/good life. Again, as Einstein said, that's pretty pathetic, a "poor way", to live your life. I wonder if any of these JWs have done some introspection about why they are JW?
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  never a jw

  Man created God, God created morals. Therefore man created morals through God. The man who first thought of God as a way to create morality to control other people deserves a great deal of credit. Cheapest and most effective way to lead and control.
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  Apognophos

  That's the point I was making...and as Einstein said, a religion is not necessary.

  Okay, well we might be mostly in agreement. But...

  If a person seeks a religious belief system that agrees with personal morals that person already believes, then the religion is doing nothing more than propping them up. It is not 'making' them moral as WT claims....

  There's value in reinforcement! Mindful meditation serves the same purpose for some people who aren't the least bit religious, as praying does for the religious.

  I have had many conversations over the years with JWs who say, "if I were not a JW, I'd be doing [fill in the blank]".

  They might say that, but would they really? Who knows. Since they're conditioned to be afraid of their own desires, what with that treacherous heart and all, they believe that they are intrinsically bad and sinful and need to be on a leash. It could be that they have more of a conscience than they give themselves credit for.