by Socrateswannabe 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Where does the need to worship god come from?
This is a question that I asked myself repeatedly when I used to believe that god exists. I struggled with this because I have never had the urge, and I imagined myself an ingrate because of it. I’m no longer stressed out or guilted by my lack of interest in worship, but I would still like to know where the need for worship springs from. Is it simply gratitude, or is there something deeper? Perhaps you have an idea.
I think it started way back when man became self aware. Perhaps when someone died rituals focused on the death and potential after life. Perhaps for comfort to ease the loss or as a show of respect.
 Archaeologists have found what may be the earliest known floral grave linings in a cave in Israel, according to a study published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The graves, as much as 13,700 years old, have been linked to the Natufian culture. ( E. Gernstein / July 3 , 2013 ) |
Archaeologists in northern Israel
say they have discovered the world's oldest known grave of a shaman. The
12,000-year-old grave holds an elderly female of the mysterious Natufian
culture, animal parts, and a human foot.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/11/081104-israel-shaman-missions.html
She was not buried with everyday items and tools, as hunters, warriors, or political leaders were. Instead, her grave contained 50 arranged turtle shells and parts of wild pigs, eagles, cows, leopards, martens, and a human foot, among other artifacts.
Shedding Light on Strange Rites
During this period Natufian culture changed from a nomadic, hunting-and-gathering culture to a sedentary, agriculture-based lifestyle, according to Grosman, a professor at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem."
Ancient Neanderthal graves held objects that someone might find useful on the' other side'.
With no hard science to draw on the imagination raved up to provide explanations for things not understood.
A lot of this had to do with the fight or flight mechanism, and response to danger real or imagined.
The imagined dangers called for explanations.......somewhere along the way ritual became Rites then Dogma.
Since the Gods were always silent, except for thunderstorms or erupting volcano's, wind and such, it would be natural for 'interpretors' to step forward and explain what it all meant. Shamans, then priests. Then ten thousand different ways to worship.
At this stage in our history doubter's, non believers, atheists are emerging armed with science and knowledge that here-to-fore did not exist and a new belief structure, a belief in humanisum is emerging.
Socrates-I understand where you are coming from. I never had the urge to worship either and felt guilty for not feeling that urge, especially since my parents were/are so keen on it all. Whenever that point was brought out at the meetings or in literature, I always had the thought :"Not me, what is wrong with me?"
I tend to think ancient peoples observed how powerful the forces of nature are - wind, hurricanes, ocean waves, earthquakes, etc. - and reasoned that there must be some super-powerful being manipulating these things. Therefore the people wanted to get on this being's good side, rather than getting on his bad side, so they'd get good weather (for their crops). Since many of these things - sun, moon, rain, lightning, wind - live in the sky, they reasoned that "god" lives in the sky.
Giordano and Snakeface, I agree that it made sense for ancient man, ignorant of most of what we now know, to feel the need to worship some unknown thing who was believed to be the cause of unexplained events and phenomena. But are you saying that that is now part of our genetic code--that it has survived inside of us for thousands or millions of years to still create the need to find answers through worship? I'm not disagreeing, I'm just questioning. And what of those like me and PaintedToeNail who do not feel this need? Are we freaks of nature?
I'd like to try a thought experiment here and get you guys' responses. Maybe I'm all wrong here, but I thought I would run this by some other people:
Imagine that while walking through a forest, you've run into an angry bear. You shout at it to go away, but it keeps coming. As it chases you, you try to escape by dodging behind trees and zig-zagging. You throw a rock back at it occasionally. ...Do you also think to shout for help?
I've noticed that other people seem to be inclined to ask others for help right away when they are in distress. For some reason this doesn't occur to me; I only respond to the problem by thinking of what I can do to help myself. It would take quite a while for me to think of calling for help if being chased by a bear. In general, it's almost a foreign concept to me to ask for someone to help me with something.
Can you guys relate to this? Could it be that some of us are more independent-minded? Is it possible that the sort of person who immediately cries "Help!" when in trouble is also more likely to turn to God for help by praying to him?
As to why some people are one way and some are another -- dependent people get the benefit of having more support from family and friends, so there's obviously a survival advantage to that. But perhaps there are other benefits from being independent, so evolution has imbued a few people with this different way of looking at things.
Good illustration, Apognophos. You are right - there does seem to be 2 types of people (introvert/extrovert?). I was just watching segments of the movie Gravity on youtube last night, and in the "detach" scene, Sandra Bullock asks the other astronaut, "What should I do?" at a time when they are having a crisis. It made me think about that, how some people look to others, whereas with some, the thought of asking for help does not occur to them. Maybe it is people from this second group who exploited the other group's need to please (and expect a reward from) a superior being...and that might be how organized religions began.
Thanks everyone! I'm interested in how this discussion is turning out. Thanks for the thought-provoking ideas.
Very good topic, Socrates.
There are, of course, lots of theories trying to explain that need for worship.
I think the basic reason was self-awareness, as Giordano placed it; specifically, the awareness of our own certain eventual death, as well as the fear of the unknown. The fear of nature's forces may had played an additional role.
Maybe the first segments of worship had to do with death rituals and buryings. The awe, and fear, in the face of death is clearly depicted in every burying from the beginning of mankind.
That could be the start, but how was it propagated thereafter? Dawkins (yeah, I know, some of you think of him as the Devil; he's not), has this theoy about memes which tries to explain that.
I would try it with an example: Dreams comprise of things that leave an impression on our daily life return in our dreams exaggerated, just like a curved mirror depicts an distorted idol. Our fears may come on us at nights distorted, seeming like monsters. Those monsters, may return again and again in our dreams. This is not worrying, it's natural. However, one may find himself so deep in those dreams that he confuses reality with dream; he may come to think that those dreams have a higher meaning, maybe a supernatural one. What if he decides to pass on the content of those dreams in his offspring or his tribe? Those who listen to him may believe that those monsters are something more than contents of a dream. With enough time passing, future generations who preserve this 'knowledge' may feel there's a need to ease the mood of those monsters by worshipping them. Thus, a method of worship appears, with rituals, rules and of course, priesthood. After enough generations, a cult is established, worshipping something that people are SURE is real, but in reality, it is just a monster from some guy's dream in the past. The oral tradition may be put in writing, when writing is invented, and so we have a written form of this cult. Those writings, plus the oral tradition, now serve as EVIDENCE for the existence of monsters (gods, demons, you name them); it will take centuries and the invention of rational, scientific method of thinking, for (some) people to realise they are not.
I think that's plausible, Syme, but only as long as other people share the fears of that individual. If it's not something that frightens them or something they can't relate to, then it won't propagate. People will be skeptical, even in a primitive society. But if someone's dream or vision is tapping into something significant on the subconscious level, then it will propagate because it's easy for people to believe or because expresses the same anxiety they were feeling.
