Right! So the meeting last night, a few interesting things

by Jon Preston 31 Replies latest jw experiences

  • sarahsmile
    sarahsmile

    The point is that she read John 5 which breaks down the WT societies foundations. The purpose they go door to door is to gather in the righteous and the ones who do not take the WT go off to judgement. It is like the Baptist going around telling people they are going to hell when it is not their right to state who is going to hell. Not all Baptist do this.

    Anyhow, I find it strange how indviduals JW interrupt the bible during their so call school night. They have a reading of the verse but interupted the meanings wrong! odd considering:

    It must be the deeper understanding of the mysteries and the power to decern scriptures! I have been dinged by JW that I was not able to decern the deeper things of God! John 5 was the topic.

    I had elders run out of my house and off my door steps! Just point out facts and they get all puffed up!

  • sspo
    sspo

    The same elder that gave you a big hug most likely never picked up the phone and check if you were still alive.

    "miss you" ...they don't bother calling while you miss the meetings for a few months.

  • Island Man
    Island Man

    Rattigan, I suggest you study the following comment posted at meletivivlon.com:

    "Our current understanding of Romans 6:7 is an issue that is dear to my heart. I think that we’re taking that scripture completely out of context. The key to understanding Romans 6:7 is to look at it together with the previous verse – Romans 6:6:

    “because we know that our old personality was impaled with [him], that our sinful body might be made inactive, that we should no longer go on being slaves to sin. For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin.”

    It seems to me that Paul was not making the point that death acquits us from culpability for past sins. Rather, he was saying that a dead person – while dead – is acquitted from the POWER of sin, i.e. he is no longer able to sin because his sinful body is inactive. In interpreting Romans 6:7 we must remember the main point that Paul was getting across to the Roman Christians. He was telling them to reckon themselves as BEING dead because they died with Christ. Since dead people cannot sin, they should there stop practicing sin. Our current understanding of Romans 6:7 does not fit into the context of Paul’s argument, period.

    Of course, the wages sin pays is death. But what kind of death? Can the temporary death of a sinner be sufficient payment for the wages of sin so that he can be raised up free of culpability for his past sins? If that were so, then why would there be any need for Christ’s ransom? All faithful Christians could simply die to pay for their sins and Jehovah can recreate them as perfect beings. Jehovah does not need a ransom to create, does he? Was a ransom needed for the creation of Adam and Eve? No. So it is evident that the kind of death a sinner has to die to pay for sin is eternal death. Without a ransom, a sinner has to remain dead forever to pay the wages of sin because that is what death actually is – eternal lifelessness. (Ecclesiastes 9:6b) The resurrection is actually a special undoing or annulling of death, and not merely the interruption of death. A person who is raised up never fully died but merely slept for a while. Why do I say so?

    Notice this passage in 1 Corinthians 15:54-57:

    “But when [this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and] this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying will take place that is written: “Death is swallowed up forever.” 55 “Death, where is your victory? Death, where is your sting?” 56 The sting producing death is sin, but the power for sin is the Law. 57 But thanks to God, for he gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!”

    Now think about this: The resurrection causes us to taunt death with the words: “Death, where is your victory? Death, where is your sting?” But wasn’t the resurrected person dead for a time? Wouldn’t that time of his being dead represent a victory for death? Yes it would . . . if we think of death as just being lifeless, if even for a finite period of time. If we take that view of death then the taunting words: “Death were is your victory?” rings hollow for resurrected ones. But if we think of death – true death as it is supposed to be – as being an intrinsically eternal condition, then the taunting words make sense, because every resurrected person has had his death reversed, undone. They never truly, absolutely died because they did not remain lifeless forever. In other words, anything less that eternal death is not really death. True death is the second death.

    When we understand death in this way, we can see why a ransom would be needed to bring back the dead. By resurrecting the dead Jehovah is actually undoing their deaths, taking back the wages paid for their sins. Resurrected ones would thus be culpable for their past sins. There are scriptures in the bible that allude to resurrected ones being judged for sins committed before they died. Here are a few: 2 Corinthians 5:9,10 (read the whole context from verse 6); Matthew 12:36,37,41,42; John 5:29 (accept it for what it says; compare it with 2 Corinthians 5:10)

    Now argument used to dismiss the idea of the dead being raised up to face condemnatory judgment for past sins is this: “Why would Jehovah’ raise up the dead only to judge them for their past sins and condemn them to death a second time?” This is an argument from incredulity. Just because we cannot think of a reason for it does not mean a good reason does not exist. But in any event I can think of two reasons:

    1. Justice.
    Everyone, wicked as well as “righteous” is today dying because of inherited sin. If it were possible to live your whole life without committing a sin, you would still die due to inherited sin from Adam. It can thus be said that no one really dies solely because of his own sins. Jesus’ ransom automatically covers inherited sin for all humans because Jesus is the last Adam that came to undo or counter balance the transgression of Adam. Just as Adam’s transgression is automatically imputed to us all whether we exercise faith in Adam or not, in the same way Jesus’ ransom automatically counters that inherited sin for all of mankind. So when a person is raised up he is no longer under the condemnation of inherited Adamic sin. Now the person is culpable for his own sins that he committed. Faithful Christians who exercise faith in the ransom have their personal sins also covered by the ransom. (1 John 2:1,2) But persons who willfully practiced sin will not have the ransom applied for their sins. Such persons have to fall into the hand of the living God by consciously facing his condemnation and execution for their sins. (Hebrews 10:26-31) Because remember they never faced death for their own sins but for inherited Adamic sin. Justice demands that wicked persons be consciously held accountable for their past sins. If not then we can have a scenario like this:

    A wicked man in a position of power commits many atrocities throughout his life. He lived a life of ease in luxury, was untouched by the legal system and died at a ripe old age in his sleep. A wicked man who lived a life of luxury through his evil deeds gets to go out in peace in his sleep . . . like righteous Enoch of old!?

    Is that justice? There are also evil people in this world who would rather commit suicide and see it as a small victory rather than be captured and held accountable by the criminal justice system. Will Jehovah give them that small victory? Will he allow the wicked who have died in their sleep to never be consciously held accountable for their wickedness?

    Keep in mind that the wicked who happen to be alive at Armageddon get to face the full brunt of Jehovah’s wrath. So a wicked person can beat the system and avoid God’s wrath by just living and dying in his sleep before Armageddon? Or maybe he can take an overdose of sleeping pills when the great tribulation starts and would never have to be held accountable at a future resurrection? Is that Jehovah’s justice? It can’t be!

    2. To vindicate his sovereignty and sanctify his name before all. “They shall have to know that I am Jehovah”. What of all the wicked people who heaped reproach on the name of God in centuries past? Doesn’t God want them to know that “I am Jehovah”? What good is it that Jehovah’s sovereignty is vindicated only to the living and to the righteous but never to the wicked? Why not bring back all the wicked people who died with the idea that God is wicked, unreal, incompetent, etc, so that they can be made to eat humble pie – to know that their victims will enjoy eternal life while they will now die everlastingly? The wicked have to know that “I am Jehovah” and their wicked deeds did not go unnoticed.

    I think these are good enough reasons to bring back the wicked to face judgment."

  • Jon Preston
    Jon Preston

    Well in all fairness theyve called me quite a bit but stopped calling to have my home study....

    however i now have the added problem of my wife wanting to be more consistent in service and meetings....So i have to figure something out....hm

    I could tell im just not ready...but i know that ill look like less of a man, a terrible husband blah blah lol

    gottanthink of something.

  • heavensgate11
    heavensgate11

    Just be honest JP. Tell her why GOD would want a dark lighter into his house. You obviously just go to come back to JWN to report and ridicule people that are learning verses the misguided understanding you have now with a lot more time vested in it.

  • AlphaMan
    AlphaMan

    You obviously just go to come back to JWN to report and ridicule people....

    I love when people go to the Kingdom Hall then come on JWN to report and ridicule people. That means they could eventually see how ridiculous this cult is and that be the last time they step foot in that anti-education, child sacrificing, pedophile protecting, chess & beards hating, bat-shit crazy cult.

  • Jon Preston
    Jon Preston

    Leave it to heavensgate to cast a judgmental tone on people without understanding nor wisdom. tell your elders that you've been slumming it on JWN heavensgate andnsee where their loyalties lie....wake up mate youre a prisoner.

    " report and ridicule people that are learning verses the misguided understanding you have now with a lot more time vested in it."

    yes exactly heavensgate. I am learning misguided teachings and verses and am in an organization which thise i am following have more time INVESTED.

    Perhaps education isnt so bad after all.

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    I agree with AlphaMan. I love hearing reports from the inside. I can't stomach another meeting anytime soon.

    JW's are human, and people say the strangest things! Thanks for sharing, and avoid too much exposure to their attempts to re-indoctrinate you.

  • NeverKnew
    NeverKnew

    marked

  • problemaddict
    problemaddict

    Sorry Jon. That is a rough one. I went back to a meeting witht he fam after some time. People were happy to see me, and I them. But yes it was a bit odd when during the meeting someone would shake your hand. I guess they didn't want to forget to afterwards?

    Im not sure I even understand the run on sentence havensgate put forth. Your nefarious acts in seeking support on this board will no doubt land you in hot water witht he personification of love. Don't you forget it!

    Also, ironic that only one person has ridiculed anything on this thread.

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