Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 02-23-2014 WT Study (MEMORIAL1)

by blondie 13 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • blondie
    blondie

    Comments You Will Not Hear at the 02-23-2014 WT Study (DECEMBER 15, 2013, pages 17-26)(MEMORIAL)

    http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20131215/

    http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20131215/passover-was-a-memorial/

    http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20131215/memorial-is-a-remembrance/

    Refer to the above sites to see full articles

    Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS

    WT material will be in Quote Boxes (see websites above to see article material)

    w = Watchtower

    g = Awake

    jv = Proclaimers book

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    Bible translations www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible

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    www.jw.org (new)

    WT child abuse www.silentlambs.org

    www.watchtowerdocuments.com/

    Blood issue www.ajwrb.org

    United Nations http://www.randytv.com/secret/unitednations.htm

    Also posted on

    http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com

    www.jehovahs-witness.net

    http://www.jehovahswitnessrecovery.com/

    OPENING COMMENTS

    Growing up I heard many anointed speak about Jesus as being their loving, older brother and especially in regards to the “memorial.” They felt they had a more intimate relationship with him than the other sheep. The other sheep would not become a “son of God” until passing the final test after the millennial reign. Have you ever had Jesus called your older brother? Eternal father perhaps, savior, but on the same level as a sibling? Anointed jws are brothers, first century Christians were brothers, but does the WTS include the other sheep?

    Doing good to Jesus’ brothers meant doing good to anointed jws…not the other sheep. Who are Jesus’ brothers per the WTS?

    *** w10 1/15 p. 5 Why Dedicate Yourself to Jehovah? ***

    Jesus’ “other sheep” will not become sons of God until the end of the thousand years.

    *** w04 11/1 p. 13 par. 17 Happy Servants of Jehovah ***

    The peaceable “other sheep” serve Jehovah under the Fine Shepherd, Christ Jesus, who becomes their “Eternal Father.” (John 10:14, 16; Isaiah 9:6) Those who successfully pass the final test after the Millennial Reign of Christ will be adopted as Jehovah’s earthly sons and “have the glorious freedom of the children of God.” (Romans 8:21; Revelation 20:7, 9)

    *** w82 7/1 p. 20 par. 4 What Birth of the Nation Has Meant for Mankind ***

    This invisible organization is, for the remnant, a “mother,” the “Jerusalem above.” (Isaiah 54:1-6; Galatians 4:26) So, coming together again from their disorganized state during World War I, they rejoiced to be nursed, borne along and fondled by this spiritual “mother,” the celestial “wife” of God their Father. As “servants” dedicated to him through their older Brother, Jesus Christ, they were comforted to know that the “hand” of Jehovah was operating in their favor.

    *** w11 5/15 p. 26 Following Christ, the Perfect Leader ***

    Shortly before his death, Jesus mentioned another way in which we can follow his leadership. He said: “He that receives anyone I send receives me also.” (John 13:20) In fact, Jesus spoke of his anointed representatives as his “brothers.” (Matt. 25:40) After Jesus had been resurrected to the heavens, his “brothers” were appointed to act in his place, “substituting for Christ” as ambassadors inviting others to become reconciled to Jehovah God. (2 Cor. 5:18-20) Our recognizing Christ’s leadership involves submission to his “brothers.”

    *** w07 4/15 p. 21 par. 7 Let the Congregation Praise Jehovah ***

    What we read at Hebrews 2:12, 17 is significant. It shows that in an inclusive sense, Christ was a member of a congregation where he declared God’s name to his brothers. Who were those brothers? Those forming part of “Abraham’s seed,” the spirit-anointed brothers of Christ, “partakers of the heavenly calling.” (Hebrews 2:16–3:1; Matthew 25:40) Yes, the primary sense of “congregation” in the Christian Greek Scriptures is the composite group of spirit-anointed followers of Christ. These 144,000 anointed ones constitute “the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens.”—Hebrews 12:23.

    So as jws look forward to the Memorial this year on April 14, Jesus will not be spoken of as their older brother, they will not be a member of God’s family for at least another 1,000 years. They will be attending what some see as the REJECT JESUS PARTY.

    ‘This Is to Be a Memorial for You’

    “This day must serve as a memorial for you, and you must celebrate it as a festival to Jehovah.”—EX. 12:14.

    PP 1,2: Why is an anniversary not the same as a birthday?

    Occurs annually on the same date

    WTS counters with flawed “reasoning.”

    *** w98 10/15 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***

    As noted, it can be said that both are anniversaries because an “anniversary” is ‘the annual recurrence of a date marking some event.’ It could be an anniversary of any event—the day you had an automobile accident, saw an eclipse of the moon, went swimming with your family, and so on. It is clear that Christians do not turn every “anniversary” into a special day or have a party to commemorate it. One should consider the aspects of an event and decide what is fitting.

    It thus would not be strange that a couple might on their wedding anniversary take time to reflect on the joyfulness of that event and on their resolve to work for success as a couple. Whether they focus on this happy occasion in private, just as a couple, or they have a few relatives or close friends with them would be for them to decide. The occasion should not become a mere excuse for a large social gathering.

    This WT is meant to focus on jws, not people at the door. Why does the WTS then say, “But,’ you might think, ‘though Jews celebrate Passover, I am not a practicing Jew. Why should I be interested in that anniversary?”…What jw would say that?

    “command given to all Christians” only anointed jws is what the WTS means.

    PP 3,4

    The WTS insults non-jws but suggesting there experience with the Passover was only in a movie.

    PP 5

    The Israelites started preparations 4 days before Nisan 14. Hebrew days run from sunset to sunrise. The WTS has started days before April 14 to condition jws for the memorial. But the Jews did not gather in a central location, but celebrated at home. What are the herbs at the KH memorial? There is the lamb (Jesus), the bread, the wine, but no herbs? Did you know that the “circumcised alien resident” ate of these things at the Passover? Does that mean that the other sheep should partake? Did Jewish proselytes become anointed Christians?

    (Numbers 9:14) 14 “‘And in case an alien resident should be residing with YOU as an alien, he also must prepare the passover sacrifice to Jehovah. According to the statute of the passover and according to its regular procedure is the way he should do. There should exist one statute for YOU people, both for the alien resident and for the native of the land.’”

    *** it-1 p. 320 Bitter Greens ***

    The bitter greens were apparently intended to remind the Israelites of the bitterness of the experience during the Egyptian bondage.

    PP 6

    How many jws realize that the Passover was more than one day, was followed by a 7-day festival? Where does that fit in the WT pattern for the memorial? Are there 8 days of the memorial? More than one day – anniversary. Note the WTS quotes from a non-jw bible.

    PP 7

    His apostles, why no mention that Judas was not present?

    PP 8

    “last valid Passover”

    “some modern calendars (including Jewish) may differ one or more days from the date”

    “Moses specified WHEN on Nisan 14 they were to do so” Have you noticed that the WTS is using italics more and more as if the rank and file are too stupid to get the point?

    PP 9

    “The Pentateuch and Haftorahs”

    “Jewish Tanakh”

    Who and when?

    http://www.alibris.com/The-Pentateuch-and-Haftorahs-Hebrew-Text-English-Translation-and-Commentary/book/5047960

    http://home.earthlink.net/~byls-press2/atla_PresentationJune2006_notes.pdf

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Bible/jpstoc.html

    Now that the WTS has the magazines/books/etc online on their site why not a link to the non-WT citations? What jw has access to the publications above to see the context or use it later for research?

    PP 10

    “In later times (when), some Jews (who) thought it would have taken hours”

    “was understood (by who)” “end (italicized)”

    Who is Joseph Klawans that we should believe him or think that he agrees with the WTS on other points (source, italics, ellipsis) good place for a link…

    http://www.bu.edu/religion/faculty/bios/klawans/

    But as demonstrated by the late Baruch Bokser in his book The Origins of the Seder, practically everything preserved in the early rabbinic traditions concerning the Passover Seder brings us back to the time immediately following the Roman destruction of the Temple in 70 C.E. It’s not that rabbinic literature cannot be trusted to tell us about history in the first century of the Common Era. It’s that rabbinic literature—in the case of the Seder—does not even claim to be telling us how the Seder (brackets WTS? Passover meal) was performed before the destruction of the Temple. - See more at: http://menachemmendel.net/blog/was-the-last-supper-a-seder/#sthash.HZqN0UE2.dpuf

    PP 11

    How many times has the WTS directly or indirectly said that only they have the right date, that even the Jews have it wrong? But then the WTS hasn’t exactly been correct about dates (1874, 1878, 1881, 1914, 1920, 1925, generation of 1914, 1975?

    Italics: “our Passover”

    Brackets: [was] (1 Corinthians 5:7) . . .For, indeed, Christ our passover has been sacrificed.” So why did the WTS have to alter scripture; r&f too dumb?

    PP 12

    Does the memorial eventually end? When?

    *** w10 3/15 p. 27 par. 16 One Flock, One Shepherd ***

    He said to anointed Christians: “For as often as you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives.” (1 Cor. 11:26) When does the Lord ‘arrive’? When he comes to take the last of his anointed bride class to their heavenly home. (John 14:2, 3) Clearly, the annual observance of the Lord’s Evening Meal is not to continue endlessly. “The remaining ones” of the woman’s seed yet on earth will continue to partake of this meal until all of them have received their heavenly reward. (Rev. 12:17)

    PP 13

    What about today, does the WTS know who all the anointed are on earth considering that count them and post the numbers each year? Is it important to know the number of the anointed on earth.

    *** w11 8/15 p. 22 Questions From Readers ***

    Memorial partakers. This is the number of baptized individuals who partake of the emblems at the Memorial worldwide. Does this total represent the number of anointed ones on earth? Not necessarily. A number of factors—including past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalance—might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling. We thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know. The Governing Body does not keep a list of all partakers, for it does not maintain a global network of anointed ones.

    The WTS teaches that the Armageddon survivors will know all the names of the anointed in heaven. Will those whose names aren’t on the list who claimed to be anointed be alive.

    *** w89 8/15 p. 20 par. 23 Paradise Restored Glorifies God ***

    It is within the realm of possibility and of likelihood that, some day in the future, the names of all those anointed Christians who have made their “calling and choosing” to the heavenly Kingdom sure and who have been blessed by this supernal resurrection will be published in full for the information of the human family in their earthly Paradise. (2 Peter 1:10; Psalm 87:5, 6) Thus, the absence of the 144,000 spirit-begotten anointed disciples of Jesus Christ from the earthly Paradise will be fully understood to the satisfaction of everybody and with a wholehearted rejoicing over them and together with them.

    PP 14

    THE REAL THEME OF THIS ARTICLE: “This same lesson that God protects his people” (only as a group though)

    *** w08 9/15 p. 9 par. 8 Jehovah Is “the Provider of Escape” for Us ***

    As individuals, we know that our immediate physical protection is not guaranteed. We take the position expressed by the three faithful Hebrews who refused to bow down to King Nebuchadnezzar’s image of gold. Those God-fearing young men did not presume that Jehovah would miraculously protect them from physical harm. (Read Daniel 3:17, 18.) As matters turned out, Jehovah did deliver them from the flames of the fiery furnace. (Dan. 3:21-27) Even in Bible times, however, miraculous deliverance was the exception rather than the rule. Many faithful servants of Jehovah died at the hands of opposers.—Heb. 11:35-37.

    *** w12 7/15 pp. 25-26 par. 14 “Of Whom Shall I Be in Dread?” ***

    Jehovah has promised to help, protect, and deliver his people, as a group, physically and spiritually, and we trust in him. (Ps. 37:28; 91:1-3) The crowd that survive “the great tribulation” must indeed be great. (Rev. 7:9, 14) Thus that crowd, as a group, will be shielded from extinction throughout the remainder of the last days.

    COLD LECTURE—Must be a lot of parents lecturing their children

    PP15

    So the WTS resorts again to the OT for examples of saving a group (despite the fact that the memorial is not a Seder/Passover)

    And this scripture leaves Jesus out of the salvation picture.

    (Philippians 3:20) 20 As for us, our citizenship exists in the heavens, from which place also we are eagerly waiting for a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

    PP16

    Teaching children to trust in God as a deliverer, yet is it Jesus shown leading the angels in battle…what does the WTS think parents are doing that would not convince their children the parents believe? What kinds of hypocrisies?

    Family Worship or family worship (why capitalized?)

    Will—italicized…God will deliver only as a group not as an individual

    PP17

    True Christians do not memorialize Passover…are there non-jw Christians who do?

    If jws make Jesus the center at the memorial, how often is he mentioned, talked about as an individual,

    (2 Timothy 1:9, 10) . . .He saved us and called us with a holy calling, not by reason of our works, but by reason of his own purpose and undeserved kindness. This was given us in connection with Christ Jesus before times long lasting, 10 but now it has been made clearly evident through the manifestation of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has abolished death but has shed light upon life and incorruption through the good news,

    PP18

    Preserve life permanent (but no individual protection) Christians (jws) that hope to live forever on earth…should regularly remind themselves

    “by means of him” Jesus or God?

    PP19

    Does the prophecies fulfilled on Jesus mean that people should trust the WTS interpretations of prophecy?

    http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/revelation-daniel-prophetic-interpretation.php

    PP20

    Differences: Passover, ate lamb, not blood (did Christians eat blood)

    Symbols (italicized) (explained later in next article…serious assertion to make with explanation right after)

    PP21

    We as Christians (the only true Christians per the WTS)

    *** w89 9/1 p. 19 par. 7 Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium ***

    Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the “great crowd,” as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil. (Revelation 7:9-17; 2 Corinthians 4:4) They will make up the “flesh” that Jesus Christ said would be saved through the worst tribulation of all human history. As it was in the days of Noah, said Jesus, so it would be in the day when He would be revealed.

    CONCLUDING COMMENTS

    This is the first “cold” lecture from the WTS about the memorial. It reminds me of a term that was used by the elders and others about jws that hadn’t been to meetings for years except the memorial, Submarine Witnesses, they only surfaced once a year. But it gave families hope, I guess, false hope. Thinking that as a family member sat in the audience they would be moved to come back…the worst meeting to move someone, the Reject Jesus meeting.

    Love, Blondie

  • Ding
    Ding

    The Memorial seems normal to JWs but very weird to outsiders.

    I remember the first time I attended one being amazed at all those people getting together for a "meal" where no one partakes of anything.

    That alone should have told me something was seriously wrong with the entire system...

  • blondie
    blondie

    My husband was not a jw the first time he went. He was afraid he would be dragged up to the front as the new "saved" one as he had at 2 other churches. Even though I had prepared him for the ritual...we are inactive now for 12 years but never go to any meetings, not even the memorial to appease family.

    I found the elders more concerned about how the napkins went over the arms of the MS & elders that were passing the emblems than talking to the new people and inactive people who came. A few did but they were the ones that had no time the other 364 days to say anything to the jws that were already were going on a regular basis. I knew they knew what they should be doing...what fakes!

  • Caupon
    Caupon

    Humbly agree that prophecies of The Jesus shall not be trusted with the Watchtower Coporation. It is such a shame that they mindlessly believe anything that is written in these 'inspired' magazines. It hurts twice as much when your own flesh and blood is a zombie.

    Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the “great crowd,” as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.

    Guess they haven't read this: The Acts of the Apostles 24:15 15 And have hope toward God, to which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    Thread showing that Corinthians regularly had Lord's Evening Meal at their 1st day of week congregation meeting - here.

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    By the way, it is not too hard to establish this:

    • 1 Corinthians 16:1, 2 refers to the Corinthians meeting schedule - "On the first day of every week." Note that the rNWT takes out the phrase "at his own house" which is in the old NWT and makes nonsense of the verse. (Other translations here.) If you were setting something aside "in your own house," you would not need anyone to tell you which day of the week to do it. The Corinthians were to set a contribution aside "on the first day of every week" because that was the day they met together.

    • 1 Corinthians 11:17-22 describes "divisions" that exist among the Corinthians when they "meet together." Thus, due to these "divisions," Paul says in verse 20, 21: "When you come together in one place, it is not really to eat the Lord’s Evening Meal. 21 For when you eat it, each one takes his own evening meal beforehand, so that one is hungry but another is intoxicated." (See here for alternate renderings.) Paul is saying, in effect, that their divisions negate their eating of the Lord's Evening Meal, since the Lord's Evening Meal represents something completely contrary to the "divisions" and lack of concern for each other among them at their meetings.

    • Paul's explanation of the LEM in verses 23-32 is to remind them of how the symbols of Jesus' body and blood, given "in your behalf" and "on the night he was handed over," represent the antithesis of their divisions among themselves. And to eat the LEM while showing such unconcern for their brothers will bring "judgment" upon themselves.

    • Paul concludes the discussion in verse 33 by again showing that this was something they were doing regularly: "Consequently, my brothers, when you come together to eat it, wait for one another." "When you come together" refers back to when "you meet together" (verse 17), "when you come together in a congregation" (verse 18) and "when you come together in one place" (verse 20).

    I used this same reasoning on an elder. All I got was silence. But it turns all the hair splitting of the WT study article (regarding Nisan 14 or 15) into nonsense. Not only did Gentiles for many centuries (and especially during the dark ages) have no way of establishing which day of the Jewish month it was (such as is discussed in the article), but they had no need to do so in the first place.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Good Morning Blondie!..

    .

    WBT$ Reasoning is WatchTarded at Best..

    It thus would not be strange that a couple might on their wedding anniversary take time to reflect on the joyfulness of that event

    and on their resolve to work for success as a couple.

    JW`s can Celebrate an Actual Birthday..(Baby Showers)..(Arrival of a Baby..)

    JW`s can Celebrate Aniversarys..(Wedding)..(WBT$Memorial)

    But..

    Not the Aniversary of a Birthday..Including Jesus`s Birthday/Christmas..

    .

    ...................

    ............................................................................................  photo mutley-ani1.gif....OUTLAW

  • blondie
    blondie

    Don't forget this most important anniversary of a birthday:

    *** w84 7/1 p. 19 Annual Meeting October 6, 1984 *** The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania was formed in 1881 and was first incorporated in 1884 under the name Zion’s Watch Tower Tract Society. Thus, 1984 marks the one hundredth anniversary of this Bible Society. How mightily Jehovah God has used this Society over the past hundred years!

    And Jesus' birth was celebrated by the angels and the shepherds.

    (Luke 2:8-21) 8 There were also in that same country shepherds living out of doors and keeping watches in the night over their flocks. 9 And suddenly Jehovah’s angel stood by them, and Jehovah’s glory gleamed around them, and they became very fearful. 10 But the angel said to them: “Have no fear, for, look! I am declaring to YOU good news of a great joy that all the people will have, 11 because there was born to YOU today a Savior, who is Christ [the] Lord, in David’s city. 12 And this is a sign for YOU: YOU will find an infant bound in cloth bands and lying in a manger.” 13 And suddenly there came to be with the angel a multitude of the heavenly army, praising God and saying: 14 “Glory in the heights above to God, and upon earth peace among men of goodwill.” 15 So when the angels had departed from them into heaven, the shepherds began saying to one another: “Let us by all means go clear to Beth ′ le·hem and see this thing that has taken place, which Jehovah has made known to us.” 16 And they went with haste and found Mary as well as Joseph, and the infant lying in the manger. 17 When they saw it, they made known the saying that had been spoken to them concerning this young child. 18 And all that heard marveled over the things told them by the shepherds, 19 but Mary began to preserve all these sayings, drawing conclusions in her heart. 20 Then the shepherds went back, glorifying and praising God for all the things they heard and saw, just as these had been told them.

  • prologos
    prologos

    thank you for the digest. never understood how jw can be protected at a group, but faithful individuals of that group can be killed in horrible accidents insisting going to 'meeting', 'assemblies' in complyance with instructions. its a means to keep indoctrinations, control.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    This is supposed to be a strictly Christian religion--in fact, it is billed as the only true Christian religion. Indeed, the religion does contain many exclusively xian teachings, notably that we are all inherently scum (sinners) and need Jesus to redeem us. With that, why are there so many blatantly Jewish terms and activities associated with this wastefest? The whole REJECT Astaroth Party is a ripoff directly from Judaism! Even the date is taken directly from the Jewish calendar. What if you were to schedule your dentist appointment or job interview using this calendar? Hope you are in Israel when the appointment comes, because otherwise you are going to get in trouble for not synchronizing your calendar with that of everyone else.

    Besides the misrepresentation of the whole religion (and yes, the whole party does borrow from pagan worship--the Sun and the 12 signs of the Zodiac represented by Jesus and the 12 apostles at the last supper), it is a complete waste of time to attend. You fight for parking spaces as attendants keep wasting your gas guiding you from one space to another like a ping pong ball. Once you are in, you find a seat and dodge the Chinese fire drills as attendants keep bouncing you from one seat to another. Once in, you hear a boring lecture about how you are a piece of scum (sinner) and need that thing they call Jesus to redeem you. They waste a good chunk of that time discussing who is not to partake. After that, they pass the stale crackers and spoiled grape juice--no one is supposed to partake (that is where rejecting Jesus comes from). There is a lecture after, detailing a special talk and that anyone is supposed to attend all these boasting sessions and do field circus to benefit from this bogus ransom. Then, push and shove out of the parking lot.

    Of course, the biggest risk is that, after the session, you will start being hounded by the hounders. You need to get your field circus time up to your absolute (not reasonable, absolute) maximum in order to benefit from this bogus ransom from this bogus sin. You need to abide by their rules--and they make fun of those who "worship things that go hop-hop" (this is the rejecting Astaroth part). You are hounded to do more, donate more, and to abide by all their rules. If you are inactive, hounders might show up at your home (refuse to invite them in, you face allegations that you are worshiping Astaroth) and rummage through everything you have. Funds that seem to have been invested in quality items or in silver and gold result in claims that you are stealing from joke-hova. And if you have questionable music, or they have trouble accessing the index of your library, you are shamed into throwing it away "to benefit from this bogus salvation". I feel this is one major reason they keep holding this wastefest.

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