Why is it so hard to deconvert the JDubs?

by alonein321 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  DATA-DOG

  I know a JW with a parent that has MS. The only hope is the new world, unless there is some medical breakthrough. I know another JW, an Elder, who has Muscular Distrophy. His only hope is the new world. Let's face it. Life sucks sometimes. People get sick, they get old, we bury our loved ones, it's sad. The emotional attatchment to the Panda Paradise is really strong. Still, you would think that at some point, EVERY dub would stop and say, " Hey. You know what? NOTHING I was ever taught has come true?! I am getting old, the END is NOT here..WHT???" You would think that this would be a common occurence.

  So what's going on? I am beginning to think that I NEVER really believed any of it. I have always felt that I could be spiritual without anyone else's help or enforced parameters. Is that a factor? Are some people just wired differently? Sure the enviroment is a factor, but some people just need to be bossed around and "protected." Would hard core dubs be just as devout in another cult if JWism never existed??

  Anyway, it's a good question. I would no problem with "paradise earth" if the JWs taught that you must be resurrected there. This myth of not aging or dying is a harmful teaching. It hamstrings a person's development. Sadly it seems that the WTBTS wants this to happen. They want weak and troubled souls to "protect" from the evil world. They find them in field service, or they grow them. As the world's thinking changes, the WTBTS is going to have to hide in their compound and recruit from 3rd world countries with no internet access.

  Paradise sounds great. I would probably be a happy JW if the leaders were not so controlling. If they would really reform the WTBTS, admit their errors, stop DF'ing, stop the apostasy hate-speech nonsense, stop the " one channel" claims, do some real charity, stay out the bedroom, stay out of the medical decisions, ect, I would have no problem going to the KH. Even if I did not really believe it, I could go for my wife. It's a really sad situation because I can't think of one JW who wouldn't gladly do some real charity work. They would do food drives. They would go to a soup kitchen. They would take meals to the Elderly. I really believe that they would do it all if the "Leaders" would get out of the way.

  The GB/FDS "one channel" myth is THE #1 reason that JWs cannot be reasoned with. I think it starts with that. Once that is dealt with, you can begin to heal and grow. Even the emotional draw of the Panda Paradise hinges in the GB/one channel teaching. Why do Jws believe that? Is it because the Bible says it? Nope! It's because the GB says it. That's the myth that must be busted. The fear of JWs waking up is why dissenters get the axe. Once the "one channel" foundation crumbles, anything can happen. A JWs individual personality will at least have a chance to flourish. Courage and honesty cannot even get a foothold until the GB are out of the way.

  Sorry for the long rant.

  DD
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  steve2

  It is very hard and heartless to take children's prized toys and books from them - especially when you do not have such nice and consoling toys and books to replace them with. Richard Dawkins himself has acknowledged the consoling "value" of religious beliefs in the face of tragedy and suffering.It does not mean those beliefs are true, anymore than the common closing line of popular fairy stories: And they lived happily ever after. In life, consolation very often has higher value and attraction than anything else, including the ability to reason and critical thinking skills.
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  designs

  In talking with some Fundamentalists the other day the consensus among them was- God has the right to torture and who do you think you are.

  You think that kind of mind set dismantles easily.

  We had an enormous challenge when we left- give up a belief system, give up family, give up friends.
• 

  Vidiot

  designs - "In talking with some Fundamentalists the other day the consensus among them was- God has the right to torture and who do you think you are."

  I've run into that one before, too; it's a real "wait, what?" moment the first time you encounter it.

  The rare occasion I hear it these days, my response is always, "Sure, you say that now, but wait 'til it happens to you or yours."

  It's seems completely lost on these people that to live under that overarching principle is to live under - for all intents and purposes - tyranny.
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  steve2

  The existential block is not JWs alone; it is this: Biblically, God alone has the "God-given right" to rule people's lives and, if deemed necessary, to terrorize and take lives. Rationally, it has nothing to do with moral righteousness and purity - but everything to do with Might is Right. The more powerful being wins!

  Believers cling to the thread-bare philosophical view that God is somehow Perfect and morally pure therefore His violence is justified, but Satan's not.

  Or, to complexify the picture: To criticize the Biblical view of God is to be accused by fundamentalists of being pro-Satan - which is not unlike an Iranian daring to question the Iranian regime being accused of being Pro-American. Like there are only 2 "sides"!
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  GrreatTeacher

  Nice thoughts, DATA DOG. I think you have hit the nail on the head.

  The GB are the only channel. Says who? The GB!

  And that closed system of logic won't let any other thoughts in.
• 

  EndofMysteries

  The reason it's so hard?

  In my exploration of other christian religions, many of it's members believe the general and basic is true and the specifics may vary. In other words, God is good, Jesus was to save from sins, God looks into the heart and those will have some sort of future / after life. Disagreement on specifics is allowed and most understand they may not have a perfect or complete understanding.

  With JW's, it's taught that everybody else is wrong and that there is only 'one truth' and those who are incorrect in their beliefs, no matter how hard or how good they are will be unworthly of life. JW's have made tons of sacrifices into rejecting higher education, planning for retirement, not fulfilling their dreams of travel and other joys with the promise that putting them aside is because the end is so close they won't reach old age and they'll be able to do those things forever.

  The longer one is a JW and gave up things, the more vested interest they have in believing it whether it's true or not. As a person ages, their window of opportunity for greatness or to accomplish life goals decreases. A person can make a few mistakes in their early 20's and never feel it, in their 30's the window starts to close where they better be in a good direction, by 40's much lower chance and by 50's too late. (in regards to getting the higher education or starting a business and the time it takes from planning to fullfillment, also for saving for retirement, etc. )

  If they are in their late 50's/early 60's, living in poverty, in bad health, they have a self created great tribulation from listening to the GB, to wake up then from certaintly to unable to find 'the truth' and the reality they will grow old and die and what they gave up, it's probably like in the Matrix, some don't want to wake up and they will even fight to stay in the Matrix.
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  Island Man

  JWism is not just a religion. It's a way of thinking, feeling and living. So the methods used to deconvert the religious would not work as easily on JWs because they're not like other religious people. In fact I would go so far as to say that JWs are actually not religious at all. Yes, they pray and they preach. But they do it without religious sentimentality. They do it like a duty - a work.

  Religious people get emotional, lift their hands in the air when singing and praying, pray on their knees, etc. JWs look down on such gestures. They are not religious people. They are actually a culture - a way of thinking and living. The fundamental principle underpinning JW culture is loyalty - loyalty to an organization deceptively packaged in their minds as loyalty to Jehovah.

  Any attempt at showing them that they are wrong is viewed by them as an attack geared at getting them to be disloyal to the organization - to leave Jehovah. So loyalty to Jehovah and his organization becomes their chief concern and so they will go to all manner of ridiculous lengths and arguments to deny, ignore, or play down any wrongs or errors in their culture. They value loyalty to the organization above actual truth when they're shown that actual truth goes against what they're taught by the organization. To a JW truth is not reality. Truth is the organization.
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  LostGeneration

  Well the reason is fear. There is one very real fear, disfellowshipping - the loss of family, friends, and possibly employment. The other fear is death at Armageddon. That one depends on how indoctrinated the JW happens to be.

  Those are damn good reasons for any JW to refuse to engage seriously with anyone who is trying to bring up an alternative world view, whether its atheism or another religion.

  JW leaders don't play around with this shit, they will ruin a person's life who leaves.
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  villagegirl

  Data Dog - Not a rant , your analysis is well thought out - and accurate.

  Blondie - the paradise earth amd living forever is taught by Seventh Day Aventists,

  not suggesting anyone should become on. Data hits the core about the "one channel"

  There is also another factor challenging the "one channel" doctrine; that is concept of

  a general Body of Christ, the teaching in the New Testament that believers are

  all equal, all partake of the bread and wine, all have direct access to God with no

  human mediator or "faithful slave" or "governing body" just a one-on -one , direct

  and personal and connected only in a spiritual way as a body, identifiable only

  by Jesus and Yahweh and the Angels. The "faithful slave" doctrine rests entirely

  on the scriptures in Matthew 25, but if you read this parable, there are TWO

  faithful slaves not ONE. Both are approved and have "authority" the one with

  two talents and the one with five talents. So where is the other "slave"

  in the WT organization ? The placing of eight men in such a self aggrandizing

  position equals making them your mediator. That is clearly blasphemy.

  How insulting to God to accuse him of selecting an Egyptologist like Russell

  who put the sign of the Sun God Rah on the covers of his books, or was it the

  Wings of Isis, anyway its an Egyptian symbol on the cover of The Time is at Hand

  and dozens of other books he wrote. There is nothing special about any doctrine

  in the WT. Jesus said " I came that you can have life, and have it more abundantly"

  Jesus proclaimed freedom, freedom and abundance, and oneness through spiritiual

  awakening, being born again, a subject that seems to terrify witnesses or evoke

  laughter. It is a spiritual awakening, enlightment, transcendence. Experienced in

  the here and now, and leading to existance beyond. The WT defines a "New World"

  like a Disneyland experience, not a spiritual experience, and installs security guards,

  and cops and surveillance systems and dress codes and monitors every aspect of

  life that could end up in celebration or joy or connection to others, or charity to others

  and all to wait for entrance to Disneyland of the future. Its not about abundance

  and love in daily life its about imprisonment and a life of empty expectation, watching

  the world go by, and your life go by, unable to experience life.