Research on legal implications of group shunning

by BreathoftheIndianNose 55 Replies latest jw friends

  • BreathoftheIndianNose
    BreathoftheIndianNose

    Hey everyone! I haven't posted here in a while, over a year I think. Just goes to show where I'm at in the recovery stage.

    Anyways I'm doing a research paper around the freedom of religion vs. human rights issue focusing on the practice of religious shunning. I want to know if there are any domestic (canada or USA) or international laws being broken by the practice of shunning. If not, is there a possible law that could be adopted that would find a happy balance between the freedom to choose assosiation and the freedom to have community/ freedom to not be forced to be part of a religion.

    Anyone know of some great resources that I should tap into?

    thanks

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    The legal implications of group shunning in the United States are covered by the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. European countries have freedom of religion and freedom from religion. The French call it laicete. I don't know how to make the accent marks.

    You may want to research when treaties bind the United States.

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Hi BreathoftheIndianNose, In the USA constitutional protections are from government and not from organizations like the WTBTS.

    IMHO the only way to comply with the USA constitution and pro-actively influence organizations like the WTBTS is to revise non-profit laws to require that non-profit organizations must report child abuse/molestation ASAP to local law enforcement and to prevent organizations from using "undue influence" to promote shunning ex-members/not associating with outsiders to its members because it promotes religious discrimination and hatred.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    Here is a site that has some interesting points re shunning:

    http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/excom7.html

    VII. Conclusion

    Painting with a broad brush, certain conclusions can be drawn as to the nature of shunning, excommunication, and a host of other exclusionary practices devised by various religions to allow them to form a sub-community within modern American society.

    Many religious communities cannot be fully open to any and all conduct by its members. Jewish tradition, as well as other faiths, established a mechanism and procedure for the exclusion of members of the faith who reject basic tenets of the community or faith. Such mechanisms include partial shunning, complete shunning, and in rare situations, excommunication. Each faith uses this process in different ways, to shape its own community. However, these mechanisms should be allowed to affect only people who wish to remain part of the religious sect that issued the shunning. People should be free to leave the faith group, and avoid the penalty.

    Government has a regulatory interest in governing these -- and all other -- collective groups that engage in activity designed to exclude people from a particular benefit. Government is (or should be) precluded on various freedom of religion grounds, however, from regulating purely ecclesiastical or faith matters.147 These grounds should also be understood as precluding the government from preventing faith groups from forming their own special sub-communities, which excludes based on religious criteria. In that way religious groups are entitled to more protection than mere commercial enterprises.148

    The right to religious exclusion cannot, however, rise to the level of implicit (or explicit) coercion to religious conformity. This issue was clearly noted in a discussion within Jewish law concerning coercion, and minority rights. Writing in the early 1600's, Rabbi Shabtai ben Meir HaCohen protested against a particular form of shunning and asserted that in the social framework of Eastern Europe in the Seventeenth Century it is tantamount to coercion and should not be allowed.149 Essentially, he states that in an insular and thoroughly intertwined Jewish community, which was the norm in the pre-emancipation communities of Eastern Europe, shunning was a form of compulsion and was thus only permitted when actual physical force was legally permitted according to Jewish law. Absent continuous interaction with the community, a single person who wishes to rebel, would perish. Shunning was coercion in that social setting. In such a society, religious minority rights disappear if even low level exclusion is allowed, and government must interfere to protect people's freedom of religion.

    Such an intertwined society does not exist norm in America. Shunning and excommunication as practiced by many faiths including Judaism are no longer designed to compel (force) observance by the shunned one. The pressures imposed will no longer prevent a person from functioning or cause him or her to starve. Rather the process of shunning and excommunication creates a choice. It forces people to decide in which society they wish to reside. Only coercion to choose is involved. It does not, in its modern form, actually compel any particular activity. Just as a person has the right to remove himself or herself from a particular religious society, that society has a right to remove itself from him or her. Minority rights in the context of religious freedom has to include the right to leave a sect. It does not, however, include the right to remain part of a group, while defying that group's wishes.

    Ultimately, religious freedom has to include the right to pick and to form one's own co-religionists and religious community members. This is the best protection government can give to religious minorities and still maintain a freedom of religion.

    Page 7 of 7 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | Notes

    DISCLAIMER

    Page 7 of 7
  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I did not want to get involved in yet another explanation why the Const'n protects the Witnesses to be followed by angry members that it is not fair. I've researched faith-based organizations receiving governmental funding and the Establishment Clause. It is not your topic but related. I had trouble narrowing the research topic at first so I read almost too much in the general field.

    I would be willing to email you my legal memo. It is short. Religion wins the overhwelming majority of time in Free Exercise cases. A few cases have imposed criminal law requirements on religions. Native Americans sued the US govt. for charging them with hallucogenics possession even though the native religion used peyote for thousands of years. Shunning will be upheld. Religion is in the private sphere. You have no right to be a member of a religion. America seemss to have a unique protection for religion.

    When I researched my legal memo, authors kept contrasting the American example with the European one. I don't know if European countries ban shunning. If the person is informed they will be shunned, there is informed consent. This is much like marriage. Few people shouldl believe they will be married in the future given the current divorce rate. People line up to become married, though. I was born-in and learned of shunning from a young age. Reading JW.org recently, though, I wonder if converts do give informed consent. The day American courts stop shunning is the day America dies.

  • LisaRose
    LisaRose

    I don't feel there is informed consent, as Watchtower says that people will only be disfellowshipped for repeated serious offences, and that warning would be given before such a step, and only if the person refused to stop a pattern of such behavior would they be disfellowshipped. At least that is what I was told when I joined. What happens in actual practice is very different, it is entirely up to the elders, it may be for one instance of sin, it may even be for things that most people would not consider serious sin.

    It doesn't make any difference, it's still under freedom of religion, but it's not informed consent.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I wanted to ask you if you would post the final results of your research. I want to expand my legal memo and include the European perspective. Several law review authors mentioning it in passing. I might be able to get the piece published. Laicite and another related standard would be good reads for history. It would highlight what is uniquely America about religion and our culture. I was never taught to research legal materials outside of the common law sphere.

    Legal terms have specific meanings that may be different from the general meaning of a word in common usage.

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    I don't think the issue is one of religious freedom as it is one of coercion.

    "The right to religious exclusion cannot, however, rise to the level of implicit (or explicit) coercion to religious conformity." http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/excom7.html

    In the case of a DF or DA person the Society, in it's official publications, points to shunning as the proper treatment for family and friends. It's not their rule it's god's rule. To get back into one's families good graces the DF or DA is coerced to obey and submit to the rules of the WTBTS and the local Elders if they want to be embraced by their family once again. In many case's they are not re-embracing the JW religion by choice but are being coerced to do so if they want to reunite with family. The DA or DF person must pay a ransom.....themselves.

    Is a person who no longer wishes to remain a JW, but does so out of fear that they might be DA and be shunned by their family........ not coercion?

    Does a JW, who would be inclined to not shun another human comply with shunning out of fear that they in turn could be shunned. Isn't fear a tool that is used to coerce?

    Bottom line: "The right to religious exclusion cannot, however, rise to the level of implicit (or explicit) coercion to religious conformity."

    .

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Well, I suggest you write to all the Supreme Court justices and give them your opinion. A Jewish law article is not going to carry the day in the United States. We may very well perceive it as coercion. An outsider will see freedom of religion. Honestly, I see social pressure from the Witnesses. No one puts a gun to our head to become Witnesses.

    Lots of things in life are unfair. I vowed to do anything I could for any Amish kid that wanted to continue their education. The Supreme Court only saw parental rights.

  • metatron
    metatron

    I'm going purely from memory here, so forgive me if I'm wrong:

    A long time ago, somebody made the claim that certain areas (British Columbia?) might have an obscure law mandating a church trial by ALL CONGREGANTS as a condition of being legally established. I don't know what ever became of this.

    The only major successful legal battle against shunning I know of involved a slander suit in which a lady got denounced by her rabid born again church for adultery. After this case, the Society got very strict about NOT announcing the specific cause of being Df'd.

    There was some legal move to hit Df'ing in Brazil but I don't know how it turned out. Not much hope for hitting them in the US but you never know about a different legal system.

    In the US, the way to hit them on Df'ing is indirect: child custody cases and attacking them in other venues whenever they come up with some 'poor us' persecution claim. Let everyone know how they break up families deliberately with Df'ing.

    Unless they made some change (I don't have a Bible Teach book) the informed consent claim by the WTS is crap. It appeared possible to me to get officially baptised without any clear explanation of Df'ing.

    IMO, the blood transfusion thing in Bulgaria ( "sans sanction") was the most blatant, deliberate and crafted lie the WTS has ever told to a governmental agency. And don't doubt that they were very embarrassed to talk about it.

    metatron

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit